Why are you not vegan....

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Angilion said:
The quota you refer to is more complicated because protein isn't one thing. It's framed as such, but it isn't. There are a vast number of different proteins and they're not at all interchangeable. At an extreme, it's possible to eat as much as 5 times your daily quota of protein and still be deficient in protein. Your body doesn't directly use the proteins you eat - it recycles them into the amino acids they're made from and uses those amino acids to make the proteins it needs. So the protein quota you refer to is actually a number of different amino acid quotas. Your body can make some of the amino acids itself from other stuff, but not all of them. It's essential to get some of the amino acids from food and drink. The use of a single protein quota as a simplification works well enough with animal proteins as they use amino acids in about the same proportions as humans need, but it doesn't work very well with plant proteins because they don't.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get enough of all the amino acids solely from plants. It is possible. But it requires more knowledge and more care over diet. The "it's all protein" simplification doesn't work well enough with plants. You need to get proteins from different plants in the relevant proportions, which works because different plants can have different amino acid profiles.

Some nuts are a great basis for it, though. You can quite reasonably get enough of all but a couple of essential amino acids from a few different nuts alone (and cashews are amongst the best, so you're on a winner there since you obvously like them).
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What the frig! That's the first intelligent post I've seen - are you sure you don't want to spout some unsubstantiated heresay or 1970s observation study?? P

On a serious note - well done, as I've said many times, if we can move past the ideological numbskulling, there are some interesting questions about how far we can replicate our natural diets; which your post starts to explore.

I do suspect it may be drowned out in due course but almost worth a separate topic - ie veganism for those post-GCSE biology...

One of the big areas at the moment in biology is breaking apart of the 'monoliths' we previously assumed - ie a calorie from one source doesn't equal a calorie from another, cholesterol is far more different than we understood, same for fats (even sub groups like saturated fats are provably not a group) and likewise proteins as you correctly describe.

Nuts appear to be the closest to meat protein that you can find and so are key for any attempt for a meatfree diet - they do still lack some elements for long range diet, but a pretty good substitute in the short/medium.

This fundamental need for meat (as well as the inefficacy of vegan diets) is what flipped the guidance towards 'meat reduction' Vs meat free diets.

One interesting question is how little meat we might need if we hypothetically wanted to maximise health and minimise impact - some studies suggest it might be pretty minimal to provide all the truly unique nutrients that our bodies require (eg one steak a year sort of volume)
 

“The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot.​

― Mark Twain, what is man ?

My neighbour brought some of this around ,she recommended vegan batter with maybe beer and
maybe turmeric ,got the batter mix so may give it a bash ,also collected some seaweed that i cooked to crisp ,maybe chuck some in ?

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moon man said:

“The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot.​

― Mark Twain, what is man ?

My neighbour brought some of this around ,she recommended vegan batter with maybe beer and
maybe turmeric ,got the batter mix so may give it a bash ,also collected some seaweed that i cooked to crisp ,maybe chuck some in ?

IMG20220621055635.jpg
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I made that for the missus last night. Batter mix was 1:1 ice cold water:flour. Ground up a nori sheet, and a tablespoon of caper water. Was good!
 
katie279 said:
Assume this was aimed at me as I posted that and it clearly flew miles above your head, as did the 12+ citations I gave, as did the neurological definitions I gave - despite your jibes, I have a degree in a neuroscience discipline, so I know exactly I'm talking about - whereas, as pointed out by all and sundry, you are spouting amygdala-laden emotional vents...
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That all well and good Mr I have degree, not that it makes a difference to the subject. Animals feel pain and fear. to imply that because they dont feel it the same way it is okay is nonsense if you care about animals.

I dont kick my dog or mistreat my cat because they are not human so dont feel it the same way. I dont do it because Im not an arse. I have had animals that were mistreated before I had them so I know first hand the damage that causes them mentally. I dont care if people eat meat, I would rather they didnt feel it was okay to kill animals just for their pleasure but thats that.

What does irrate me is people saying rubbish like 'Oh they dont feel pain the same way so it doesnt matter'. Maybe go and get a degree in compassion then maybe you might understand vegans/vegetarians that are that way because they dont want to contribute to animal suffering better. I would also add humans.

"I dont mind if people are vegans" So ******* what. If you dont mind people being vegans then stop posting stuff that seems aimed at irritating or causing them distress.

Anyway I had you on ignore due to not only this thread but the ones in SC where you show just as much arrogance on the subject. I unblocked you to reply as I can still see you posts if not logged in.
 
Lost one of my ex commercial hens today.
Poor girl was a year and a half free.

Cause Of death? Multiple tumours and basic organ failure.


Reason?
Commercial hens are egg factories. Once they finish thier time on farm they are slaughtered. A few get new homes. But they Don't live long due to thier 'engineering' .

Breaks my heart. Poor girls. And the meat birds get it so much worse.

End of animal farming can't come soon enough
 
Tony Edwards said:
That all well and good Mr I have degree, not that it makes a difference to the subject. Animals feel pain and fear. to imply that because they dont feel it the same way it is okay is nonsense if you care about animals.

I dont kick my dog or mistreat my cat because they are not human so dont feel it the same way. I dont do it because Im not an arse. I have had animals that were mistreated before I had them so I know first hand the damage that causes them mentally. I dont care if people eat meat, I would rather they didnt feel it was okay to kill animals just for their pleasure but thats that.

What does irrate me is people saying rubbish like 'Oh they dont feel pain the same way so it doesnt matter'. Maybe go and get a degree in compassion then maybe you might understand vegans/vegetarians that are that way because they dont want to contribute to animal suffering better. I would also add humans.

"I dont mind if people are vegans" So ******* what. If you dont mind people being vegans then stop posting stuff that seems aimed at irritating or causing them distress.

Anyway I had you on ignore due to not only this thread but the ones in SC where you show just as much arrogance on the subject. I unblocked you to reply as I can still see you posts if not logged in
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I do hope in your bluster and rage you didn't forget the original title of this thread and the tone of the OP?

It was specifically titled and written with the aim of "irritating or causing them distress." to anyone deemed "Not Morally Superior" enough to be vegan.

Speaking of arrogance on subjects.... Just how arrogant does a person have to be to assume they know more than the collective sum total of all biologists, neuroscientists and any other credited experts on the subject(s) in question. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
 
413x said:
Lost one of my ex commercial hens today.
Poor girl was a year and a half free.

Cause Of death? Multiple tumours and basic organ failure.


Reason?
Commercial hens are egg factories. Once they finish thier time on farm they are slaughtered. A few get new homes. But they Don't live long due to thier 'engineering' .

Breaks my heart. Poor girls. And the meat birds get it so much worse.

End of animal farming can't come soon enough
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Sorry to hear that. Be proud you gave her a decent life after a horrible one.
 
Ahleckz said:
Sorry to hear that. Be proud you gave her a decent life after a horrible one.
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I am. It would be easier to get hybrids, but that is like going to a puppy farm. I'd rather give myself the thankless task of giving an ex batt a home. They are such characters.

Love them to bits

Glimmer on left a few days ago. These two absolutely love being near me. Not so keen on other people. Chickens aren't stupid. They recognise us as individuals, can even learn thier own names.

And thank you

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I went veggie over a year ago and haven't regretted it. Not gone all the way vegan but may try in the future. I don't preach at others, I didn't make this change until 41 so why should I expect everyone else to change just because I have now?

It was a personal thing for me, the main driver being the cruelty and conditions the animals live in. I get this isn't all places but once you see the mega farms like in the US and the fact a pig has no space and can't even turn around... That's no life. There are thousands of videos showing the poor conditions, I don't want to be a part of that.

Secondly impact on the environment generally, less proven science I'm sure, and there are arguements about land being cleared for more veg crops which is bad but lesser of two evils maybe... I try and buy local and organic where I can.

Finally the disgusting state of most meat sold.in supermarkets.

Meat and fish is pumped full of all sorts of chemicals, including dyes, for example smoked salmon only looks like you think it should as it has been coloured, the same happens with chicken. I'm not a health freak or anything but the state of £3 packs of chicken breast in Morrisons... I'd rather go without.

I saw a guy on TV a while back, was a morning TV bit and they were going on at him for being vegan and his kids being vegan too and not giving them choice etc. He had a good response, said let's take your kids to an abattoir and then see if they still want to eat meat.
 
KraniX said:
It was a personal thing for me, the main driver being the cruelty and conditions the animals live in. I get this isn't all places but once you see the mega farms like in the US and the fact a pig has no space and can't even turn around... That's no life. There are thousands of videos showing the poor conditions, I don't want to be a part of that.
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Surely the issue to be addressed here is the poor treatment of animals in such countries, not to stop eating meat?

*Edit* Humans (Workers) are significantly taken advantage of in many countries but the solution to this is not to get everyone to "stop working", it is to campaign against and combat the cruelty and poor conditions surely?

Cheap migrant labor, often housed multiple to a room has been used for years to pick the summer fruit / veg crops in our fields because it is work that the native population do not want to do / are unwilling to do for the money, The solution is not to get everyone to stop eating fruit and veg but to combat the mistreatment / cruelty / exploitation.
 
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Devilman said:
Surely the issue to be addressed here is the poor treatment of animals in such countries, not to stop eating meat?

*Edit* Humans (Workers) are significantly taken advantage of in many countries but the solution to this is not to get everyone to "stop working", it is to campaign against and combat the cruelty and poor conditions surely?

Cheap migrant labor, often housed multiple to a room has been used for years to pick the summer fruit / veg crops in our fields because it is work that the native population do not want to do / are unwilling to do for the money, The solution is not to get everyone to stop eating fruit and veg but to combat the mistreatment / cruelty / exploitation.
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Late night post and couldn't cover everything, but besides the cruelty and the conditions I don't want these animals to be killed on my behalf.

Fair point on the fruit picking, I'm against the exploitation of people too, will investigate further how I can be better in this area.

But fundamentally people have the freedom to leave, get a different job, work on a different farm, go pick fruit in another country where conditions are better. They can also call the police, write to the local MP, post photos on social media, complain directly to the owners etc.
 
Was in the news about cabbage pickers earning north of 50k ,the Bulgarians I have chatted to were certainly not taken advantage of but I guess it happens .one showed me his Bentley pics back in sunny beach ,this was when I worked in a big bakery .
 
I was vegan during the '90s and was involved in hunt sabotage. I have lots and lots of vegan friends.

I'm not a vegan because I wear leather. I got sick of paying for shoes every three months. My diet is completely plant-based, but because of the leather I am definitely not vegan and neither are you if you wear animal skins.

Removed off topic portions of the post
 
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