Why are you not vegan....

[Uther]

Trying to make people feel guilty is not the way forward, because you just get push back.

 

[Scougar]

I have better things to do that meal plan excessively, trying to make sure I get everything I need because I don't eat meat. Plus, meat is tasty. I like my stir frys, pepperoni pizza's, bbq's too much. I don't need to take supplements because of a diet choice. I just eat.

Could I be healthier? Sure. But that won't cut out meat. I don't eat a ton of red meat or pork anyway, it's mostly chicken (and cold meats).

 

[Minusorange]

It's better to push for stricter standards and punishments for breaching those standards than it is to push for eliminating a natural process for Humans, it's much easier to get somebody to agree to something when you're not trying to restrict their choice while goals are the same, people will be more on board with bettering animal welfare, instead of curtailing their freedom, even if the result is similar in that less meat will be consumed because the better standards would mean meat costs more to produce.

 

[Lopéz]

Unfortunately, with the exception of 413x who seems to have a pretty sensible approach, most of the vegans in this thread are using the usual ploys:

Uneducated
Ignorant
I've seen the error of my ways
We can't keep XYZ
Murdered
Tortured
Screaming for their lives

These conversations are far more likely to be productive without using deliberately emotive or sensational terms.

 

[katie279]

That is an exception.
On my grandparents farm the pigs were treated like a food source. It wasn't a really spiteful. I never saw anyone kicking a piglet. But the conditions were cruel.

Small pens, multiple animals. Little light. Dusty.
Many animals probably only got proper light for example moving between pens.
They lived in quite dirty conditions obviously.

This is much more normal. It was a small scale farm. But not one where the pigs roam around in open fields.

Assume your grandparents had a farm a while back. To balance that video's somewhat propagandised view:

- 40% of UK pigs live outdoors (ie no stalls at all)
- Sow stalls - referenced have been banned in the UK since 1999, although EU still allows
- Farrowing crates - ie for pregnant sows are allowed for five weeks max (these are very sensible given sows tendency to accidentally crush piglets!)

This is the baseline law, but for pretty much all the labelled categories, they're outdoors in fields most of their life with sheltered housing.

Not saying it's perfect, but these vegan-mindless videos lose a lot of credibility by selecting worst examples, blowing out of proportion and distorting reality/science.

 

[413x]

Assume your grandparents had a farm a while back. To balance that video's somewhat propagandised view:

- 40% of UK pigs live outdoors (ie no stalls at all)
- Sow stalls - referenced have been banned in the UK since 1999, although EU still allows
- Farrowing crates - ie for pregnant sows are allowed for five weeks max (these are very sensible given sows tendency to accidentally crush piglets!)

This is the baseline law, but for pretty much all the labelled categories, they're outdoors in fields most of their life with sheltered housing.

Not saying it's perfect, but these vegan-mindless videos lose a lot of credibility by selecting worst examples, blowing out of proportion and distorting reality/science.

It wasn't that long ago.
The farrowing crates rule above applied.

And yes without those piglets would be crushed. I mean it still happens. But it minimises it.

95 percent of the pigs were in fattening sheds.

Small pens. I'd say 4m*4m? Can't remember entirely. But they were obviously cramped. Always squabbling as you can imagine.

I'm not sure exactly how long ago it was. Maybe 7 years? (scary that) Maybe it is longer than I thought! They are passed now and the farm has been in ruin for some time.

 

[katie279]

It wasn't that long ago.
The farrowing crates rule above applied.

And yes without those piglets would be crushed. I mean it still happens. But it minimises it.

95 percent of the pigs were in fattening sheds.

Small pens. I'd say 4m*4m? Can't remember entirely. But they were obviously cramped. Always squabbling as you can imagine.

I'm not sure exactly how long ago it was. Maybe 7 years? (scary that) Maybe it is longer than I thought! They are passed now and the farm has been in ruin for some time.

Yeah ok, at risk of offending, it might have been a little outdated.

I mean, I suspect if the vegan videos had clips of terrible conditions like this, they might not get the audience:

Outdoor-pigs hosted at ImgBB

Image Outdoor-pigs hosted in ImgBB

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800wm-1 hosted at ImgBB

Image 800wm-1 hosted in ImgBB

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markup-16559976130824054697641591575275-jpg hosted at ImgBB

Image markup-16559976130824054697641591575275-jpg hosted in ImgBB

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One of those is in Bungay.

I guess the point is animal care is far more convincing an argument than animal abstinence.

 

[moon man]

It doesn't matter if you dress pigs up in tutus and board them in 5 star hotels ,its black and white ,life vs death its not that hard to grasp tbh

 

[Devilman]

It doesn't matter if you dress pigs up in tutus and board them in 5 star hotels ,its black and white ,life vs death its not that hard to grasp tbh

If only everything in life was so black and white, simplistic and not remotely nuanced or complex at all.

 

[moon man]

If only everything in life was so black and white, simplistic and not remotely nuanced or complex at all.

there is just no point saying lets kill them nicely in a vegan debate

 

[Tony Edwards]

there is just no point saying lets kill them nicely in a vegan debate

The crazy thing is if meat eaters start a thread about meat lets say a BBQ thread. You dont get loads of non meat eaters in there taking the **** out of them yet here we are. My mind boggles. Its like race/religion baiting threads, rainbow thread, woke threads. Its mostly the same angry people spittle posting.

I would like to say I dont get it but I do.

 

[Tony Edwards]

It's better to push for stricter standards and punishments for breaching those standards than it is to push for eliminating a natural process for Humans, it's much easier to get somebody to agree to something when you're not trying to restrict their choice while goals are the same, people will be more on board with bettering animal welfare, instead of curtailing their freedom, even if the result is similar in that less meat will be consumed because the better standards would mean meat costs more to produce.

Thats what meat eaters should be doing and ironicaly when I was a meat eater that is the sort of thing I would do.

eliminating a natural process for Humans

lol. You are acting like meat is the only source of food.

 

[montymint]

You dont get loads of non meat eaters in there taking the **** out of them yet here we are.

Tbh in the BBQ thread you don't have meat eaters forcing ethics (use of emotional blackmail) onto the none-meat eaters and refusing to see any other viewpoint but theirs.

(I will concede however that the pictures of meat on this thread are childish at best)

 

[Tony Edwards]

Tbh in the BBQ thread you don't have meat eaters forcing ethics (use of emotional blackmail) onto the none-meat eaters and refusing to see any other viewpoint but theirs.

(I will concede however that the pictures of meat on this thread are childish at best)

I bet the first person that posted a veg BBQ wasnt greeted very well.

I mean nothing is forcing meat eaters to read the thread. There are some fairly rational meat eaters in here and there are some that arent is all Im saying.

 

[bazzabear]

The crazy thing is if meat eaters start a thread about meat lets say a BBQ thread. You dont get loads of non meat eaters in there taking the **** out of them yet here we are. My mind boggles. Its like race/religion baiting threads, rainbow thread, woke threads. Its mostly the same angry people spittle posting.

I would like to say I dont get it but I do.

Do you think you might be missing the fact that the thread title is specifically aimed at meat eaters? Seems strange to be amazed that the thread is full of them.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I had a couple of vegan Richmond sausages yesterday, they were bloody awful.

 

[montymint]

I bet the first person that posted a veg BBQ wasnt greeted very well.

I mean nothing is forcing meat eaters to read the thread. There are some fairly rational meat eaters in here and there are some that arent is all Im saying.

The original OP was worded exactly to bait meat eaters - let's not beat around the bush here.

for reference:

Hey guys, (now ive got you with that title) so I went vegetarian about 9 months ago after struggling with the idea of eating meat for quite a while and have recently gone vegan after seeing footage of a cow get bolt gunned in the head.

I think the main problems are ignorance and cultural conditioning, I recently found that baby male chicks are either ground up alive or gassed at 1 day old because they're useless in the egg industry. And piglets have their teeth "trimmed" and tails "docked" to reduce tail biting amongst other pigs which is a symptom of mental stress, gee I wonder why they might be stressed....

So, lets have at it, why do you still pay for animal abuse?

That last sentence was a challenge in itself and the OP did edit it after the thread has been about for a bit.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Do you think you might be missing the fact that the thread title is specifically aimed at meat eaters? Seems strange to be amazed that the thread is full of them.

Really? Have you thought about what I posted before you came out with that?

I had a couple of vegan Richmond sausages yesterday, they were bloody awful.

Bad choice. Get some decent ones.

 

[bazzabear]

It doesn't matter if you dress pigs up in tutus and board them in 5 star hotels ,its black and white ,life vs death its not that hard to grasp tbh

If your genuine aim is animal welfare, it seems crazy to not accept that there can be any difference in the welfare of animals reared for food.

So you think we might as well go back to battery farming then? As long as animals are being kept for food at all, you've no interest at all in them being treated well?

 

[Tony Edwards]

That last sentence was a challenge in itself and the OP did edit it after the thread has been about for a bit.

Yes maybe it should have been posted in SC where most of the adults appear to be.