Slightly non-descriptive name but if you must shop in supermarkets, the soil association is the label to look for IMO, they're free of all the above and decent standard:
The animal welfare behind the meat you buy - Which? investigates
To understand how the different animal welfare standards on a meat farm translate to the products you buy on supermarket shelves, you need to know your label...youtu.be
But seriously, try and just get from farms/markets and you'll be waaay above that.
Why are you not vegan....
- Thread starter Johno please?
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They have a fair point with Red Tractor - it is for me too low a minimum standard, hence soil association, but saying 'stop the propaganda ' with a clear propaganda video does undermine.
There's masses of undercover videos of terrible McDonald's cooking conditions, schools with terrible, abusive teachers, vegetable farming that's packed with nasty chemicals that are known to kill, factories spewing horrendously dangerous fumes into the air etc etc.
I'm just not proposing stopping eating, education, air as the solution.
I grew up in Norfolk, so used to play at dozens of farms and the standards even then were miles above anything seen above - there was genuine compassion for the pigs, knew them by name even with over a thousand of them, loads of space to roam outside etc etc.
So got to avoid a universal response to a selective report....
There's masses of undercover videos of terrible McDonald's cooking conditions, schools with terrible, abusive teachers, vegetable farming that's packed with nasty chemicals that are known to kill, factories spewing horrendously dangerous fumes into the air etc etc.
I'm just not proposing stopping eating, education, air as the solution.
I grew up in Norfolk, so used to play at dozens of farms and the standards even then were miles above anything seen above - there was genuine compassion for the pigs, knew them by name even with over a thousand of them, loads of space to roam outside etc etc.
So got to avoid a universal response to a selective report....
Soldato
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My kids have prepared rabbits and fish, they've seen a chicken running around one second, meat on their plate less than an hour later, they are completely fine with it, they love watching wildlife programs on the TV and so on. Obviously if the parents are squeamish about the natural world then the kids are going to be affected by that unnatural affliction too. My kids also kept asking about where babies come from, so we've already done the science classes several years ahead of when the schools do them too.
I've done work at an abattoir but you cant just phone up for a day trip so the kids haven't been yet, but we'll be keeping a pig or two soon as well as chickens and ducks so that's going to be no different really.
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You can make anything abhorant seem normal with indoctrination, people taught to hate jews or kafir for example, just takes a bit of brainwashing from an early age.
I remeber seeing kids with severed heads when the syrian civil war was at its peak.
Imagine all the brainwashing required to psyche people up for midwifery, autopsies, clear-up of RTA's... abhorrent stuff seeing the facade stripped away?
You're a walking talking blob of meat. A food source while you're alive and even more so when you're dead for a myriad of creatures.
There's perfectly sane reasons to not eat meat.
Being "brainwashed" by an agenda of fomenting psychological distress over eating food suitable for the animal you are should not be one of them. It should be a rational decision.
what a rather unpleasant thing to post. you're basically equating someone who has given their kids a balanced life view with antisemites, racists and folks cutting off peoples heads. utterly disgusting.
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We have mites that live on our face and have sex with one another whilst we're asleep too!!
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@Johno please? You may have recently "seen the light", but it's your decision. I'm not really sure if your new found vegetarian principles come from a healthy place.
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No, youve clearly not understood my post at all.
Yea you would need to become desentised to that stuff to be able to do your job for sure, but thats all unfortunatley necessary, unlike paying for animals to be abused and killed or raising your children to do the same.
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I think OP should change his name to "paying for animals to be abused and killed".
We get it, yes you said it's a fact, so many times, but we have made our peace with it, keep saying that won't make people feel bad, it comes across as rather crass and passive-aggressive which in turn make people want to argue in a way that is more tonally aggressive than it needed to be.
And by keep pushing this agenda, you actually force more animals to be abused and killed because more will be eaten as opposed to reduced meat consumption being the goal which will end less animals to be abused and killed. Which is what you want, to have less animals to be abused and killed.
If you want less animals to be abused and killed, push for reduced meat consumption. Pushing for veganism is HURTING your agenda. Especially the way you are going about it.
We get it, yes you said it's a fact, so many times, but we have made our peace with it, keep saying that won't make people feel bad, it comes across as rather crass and passive-aggressive which in turn make people want to argue in a way that is more tonally aggressive than it needed to be.
And by keep pushing this agenda, you actually force more animals to be abused and killed because more will be eaten as opposed to reduced meat consumption being the goal which will end less animals to be abused and killed. Which is what you want, to have less animals to be abused and killed.
If you want less animals to be abused and killed, push for reduced meat consumption. Pushing for veganism is HURTING your agenda. Especially the way you are going about it.
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You really are doing the vegan "cause" no favours in this thread.
Thank god. Care to explain it to me then cause I can’t work out what else it was you were trying to say.
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You're more than welcome to stop reading and posting raymond, but you wont will you.
I don't think starting a thread on veganism is going to harm more animals, seeing stuff online that went against my long held beliefs is what got me thinking about not eating meat in the first place.
Caporegime
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I am only trying to HELP you to get to your goal, which is LESS animals to be abused and killed?
Do you secretly want MORE animals to be abused and killed? You must if you keep going about on the way you are going about it.
Veganism is not the issue, not when it’s being discussed. It’s how it’s being discussed and the way you are doing it won’t get you anywhere. You are not promoting veganism, you are giving it a bad name.
The way you are going about it makes veganism like a cult, like a religion...Come join us! Be enlightened, there is a better path, you can be saved!
Errrrrh, NO THANKS. That's 99.9999999999% automatic reaction.
vs
Do you believe a possibility of a God?
Probably get like 50% saying....probably to perhaps.
Do you know how MUCH MORE Animals will be saved from being abused and killed if you can get 50% of people give up 10% of meat intake? this is how you can achieve less animals to be abused and killed.
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The goal of raising animals is for food and useful animal products. Not sure what kind of meat you're looking at where the goal is to get in an abuse quota.
And yes, raising animals and then killing them is extremely necessary for the purposes of eating them and I'm pretty sure eating animals is something that is entirely correct for a human diet. You can live off vegetables alone. But you don't have to.
That is an exception.
On my grandparents farm the pigs were treated like a food source. It wasn't a really spiteful. I never saw anyone kicking a piglet. But the conditions were cruel.
Small pens, multiple animals. Little light. Dusty.
Many animals probably only got proper light for example moving between pens.
They lived in quite dirty conditions obviously.
This is much more normal. It was a small scale farm. But not one where the pigs roam around in open fields.
I have to kind of agree. More you force people the more those people put up brick walls.
People can't be told. You present them with facts, and unbiased sources and let individuals decide.
I do believe it (significant veganism/lab meat) will happen, but I doubt it will be ethics driven.
More likely animal farming will become so inefficient vs lab grown meat that in the end price (as it mostly does) will be the changing factor.
Then in the future beyond that the past will be judged as "how could they ever have done that to those animals".
Such is progress and change of culture.
Took a big trigger for me as I've banged on about loads ha ,6 hrs maybe less in meat packing ,overnight veggie ,then realised how dairy and some egg production is .
Now I make gin (yeah I know but please drink responsibly) I was offered place at ginsters on been made redundant but obviously took the cash instead,afew months in Spain ,chilled out ,moon man drifts off again,.......
Now I make gin (yeah I know but please drink responsibly) I was offered place at ginsters on been made redundant but obviously took the cash instead,afew months in Spain ,chilled out ,moon man drifts off again,.......
Caporegime
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I think eventually....at least in a developed and more educated society, it can happen...but not in my life time.
Most people don’t have the incentive, motivation, energy, inclination or reason to go vegan. OP saying “meat is bad, animal abuse” doesn’t work. It triggers a “putting up wall” mechanism inside the head, because it sounds like someone trying to recruit me into a cult.
Most people would only do things when it is beneficial to them, especially when they are not well off. Veganism is a luxury diet, it is not something you do when you are poor….I am going to take a WILD stab here that most if not all the vegans in this thread earn above the national average, and I’ll even go 1 step further, that they are not renting. So if I have to be beneficially worse off for my diet, that’s not going to work for most people as the perception is that vegan food cost more. Junk food is cheap, frozen chips and frozen processed food is cheap. Yes I know you can eat on a vegan diet too on the cheap, but cooking skills is not something everyone has, this takes education and more education, both in home cooking and also financial habit. And telling someone “animal abuse” isn’t going to do a thing towards this or help them shifting them off their meat diet when they are not educated.
It’s such a reductive way to look at things, and unappreciative of other's environmental situation if the only angle is “animal abuse”.
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I'm not sure if a good vegan diet is expensive, it is if you don't put effort in. Vegan subs are definitely expensive!
I do not think it will be quick. I think the tide will turn in my lifetime to a real movement against meat. But it won't be quick. And I don't think the technology is there yet.
My gf is vegan and she used to push me. And it really did put up wall. Now, of my own accord, I'm nearly meat free (dairy is another matter!).
I don't eat chicken products simply as I love my chickens.
But pushing wasn't the answer. What I do like is a nice cooked vegan meal, without a lecture. "how was that?"... "yummy".. "that was vegan". I'll even do vegan meals now. But to be fair they aren't cheap. As I like things like asparagus and avocados (which I know for some aren't vegan!).
That's much more productive than "don't eat meat you monster".
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