Why are you not vegan....

[Alice In Wonderland]

All the farmers I know (family friends and that kind of thing) absolutely adore their animals. They have special massaging beds for their cows and try to ensure that they live their best life.

I agree that factory farming is awful and refuse myself to buy the cheap meat but it is really heartening to see how much they love and care for their animals.

I grew up in the country so maybe I have a different attitude as life and death was just a part of living there.

 

[Johno please?]

This, as predicted is the same one line you have on repeat. I'm totally sure because I can copy the same reply from earlier.

You've dodged the question. If youre happy to chose the one that causes more suffering then fine, but at least admit it.

Raising and killing animals is not necessary to live a healthy life.

 

[Johno please?]

All the farmers I know (family friends and that kind of thing) absolutely adore their animals. They have special massaging beds for their cows and try to ensure that they live their best life.

I agree that factory farming is awful and refuse myself to buy the cheap meat but it is really heartening to see how much they love and care for their animals.

I grew up in the country so maybe I have a different attitude as life and death was just a part of living there.

I'm sure nearly every farmer will say this, their actions suggest otherwise though. While some animals will no doubt get a "nice" life, they still get needlessly sent to a slaughterhouse.

Reminds me of a post I saw on reddit, some people raised a lovely looking brown cow with huge horns for 10yrs, that no doubt trusted and liked his owners.... they then sent him to be killed, (sorry, 'processed' they called it) and asked for his horns back. You would think after 10yrs you would have some kind of attachment, but I guess they never really saw him as anything but a product.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You've dodged the question. If youre happy to chose the one that causes more suffering then fine, but at least admit it.

Raising and killing animals is not necessary to live a healthy life.

"Raising and killing animals is not necessary to live a healthy life."

With a caveat that (which you always every single time, ignore)

1 - Everyone's lifestyle fits or suits it.
2 - Everyone's situation allows it.
3 - Everyone has the inclination to do it.
4 - Everyone has the resources - time, knowhow to read up and learn about it.
5 - Everyone' are actually smart enough to understand what you’ve read and apply it to the diet in order to make sure you are not making yourself ill.
6 - Everyone is medically suited to it.
7 - Everyone even want to do it.

Yes, I know your reply will be “so you are putting your life above an animal?” Yes, I am. Are you telling me you will save a puppy before a baby in a fire if you can only save one? (if you are being reductive and black and white about "killing animals are not necessary", then i can be reductive with the above scenario)

Remember those caveats before you ask “you too can live like me and follow my path to be a vegan”. Not everyone is like you. If you have considerations for animals, then show some considerations for other people.

 

[dlockers]

Plot twist, the baby becomes Hitler - but the puppy would become the Boxer dog from Homeward Bound.

 

[Johno please?]

"Raising and killing animals is not necessary to live a healthy life."

With a caveat that (which you always every single time, ignore)

1 - Everyone's lifestyle fits or suits it.
2 - Everyone's situation allows it.
3 - Everyone has the inclination to do it.
4 - Everyone has the resources - time, knowhow to read up and learn about it.
5 - Everyone' are actually smart enough to understand what you’ve read and apply it to the diet in order to make sure you are not making yourself ill.
6 - Everyone is medically suited to it.
7 - Everyone even want to do it.

Yes, I know your reply will be “so you are putting your life above an animal?” Yes, I am. Are you telling me you will save a puppy before a baby in a fire if you can only save one?

Remember those caveats before you ask “you too can live like me and follow my path to be a vegan”. Not everyone is like you.

Im not ignoring it, we've done this already... by about page 10, so why are you still repeating this babble? Youre the kind of person that has to have the last word in every arguemnt arn't you raymond xD

Nearly everyone on this forum can go vegan, if you have access to electronic devices and the internet, it shouldnt be an issue.

I'm going to add this to the OP because I only just found it, it might stop the same posts and the same arguments....

Arguments against veganism — Carnism Debunked

All the common arguments against veganism DEBUNKED.

www.carnismdebunked.com

 

[Raymond Lin]

Im not ignoring it, we've done this already... by about page 10, so why are you still repeating this babble? Youre the kind of person that has to have the last word in every arguemnt arn't you raymond xD

Nearly everyone on this forum can go vegan, if you have access to electronic devices and the internet, it shouldnt be an issue.

I'm going to add this to the OP because I only just found it, it might stop the same posts and the same arguments....

Arguments against veganism — Carnism Debunked

All the common arguments against veganism DEBUNKED.

www.carnismdebunked.com

Everyone can go vegan?

How do you know? You are not our doctor, you don't know how capable everyone is at cooking, you don't know if we are disable or able (I know that @robfosters cannot do certain things in the kitchen due to his illness). You don't know whether we have the resources and know-how or time to research, you don't know people. You are just ignoring my points again and deflect it with a link.

Stop being so arrogant and pretend that you do and make blanket statements like that. You are acting like one of those flat-earther or a text book religious advocate, read something online and think it must be true. There is no way a website call carnismdebunked is a medical website. If it's on the NHS.gov and perhaps I will have a read. I think that's fair. I will also accept any other official agency or academic papers that has been peer-reviewed.

 

[andybird123]

Oh look another link to stuff created by "veganism as a religion" zealots

 

[Thekwango]

No, youve clearly not understood my post at all.

i've already asked but i'll try again - can you explain it to me then please?

 

[Thekwango]

All the farmers I know (family friends and that kind of thing) absolutely adore their animals. They have special massaging beds for their cows and try to ensure that they live their best life.

that has certainly not been my experience! massaging beds.....that's certainly different.

 

[C Kent]

Nearly everyone on this forum can go vegan, if you have access to electronic devices and the internet, it shouldnt be an issue.

Why would we want to? Meat tastes good, animals are food. End of. Shame the weather has turned as I do love a BBQ on the weekend

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

I'm sure nearly every farmer will say this, their actions suggest otherwise though. While some animals will no doubt get a "nice" life, they still get needlessly sent to a slaughterhouse.

Reminds me of a post I saw on reddit, some people raised a lovely looking brown cow with huge horns for 10yrs, that no doubt trusted and liked his owners.... they then sent him to be killed, (sorry, 'processed' they called it) and asked for his horns back. You would think after 10yrs you would have some kind of attachment, but I guess they never really saw him as anything but a product.

Asking for the cows horns back suggests to me that he actually really cared for him.

Otherwise why ask for them back at all?

Maybe he wanted to mount them in order to remember him by.

 

[Efour]

Grilling tonight.

12 of us.

I'm guessing at least 3 pigs died so we can celebrate midsommar.

If you guys can say a prayer for them that would really help me out coping with all the guilt.

You're doing the lord's work, keep it up.

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

that has certainly not been my experience! massaging beds.....that's certainly different.

I'd never heard of it either but I think it's awesome for the cows.

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

Apologies for the source of the news article and it being 2012 but just to show you how some really do genuinely care for their cows.

Massages, classical music and $70,000 waterbeds: the surprising pampering that is making cows produce more milk

Richard Conrad installed $70,000 waterbeds on his farm in Grafton, Ohio, about a year ago. It took the 220 dairy cows a few months to adjust to the softer surface but now they seem to enjoy it, he said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[katie279]

Heh, yes this proves my point perfectly - believe massaging is very popular with Wagyu beef (they believe wellbeing improves the marbling of the meat), Wales has quite a few farms that do this. Stress is also meant to affect the meat quality, so they spend a lot of time/money making the cows chilled/pampered.

I really do think if we focused more on quality of food and less on how cheap we can get those sticks of broccoli or ribeyes, we'd be better all round.

As an aside, for the more passionate vegans do you have a similar issue with cars? Conscious there's hundreds of thousands of animals killed every week on the roads - guess similar argument holds, you don't HAVE to drive, it sure makes life easier/more enjoyable, but it's certainly not a necessity. Not winding you up, just genuinely curious about how you draw the line. Naturally you get to extreme Buddhists who paralyse their life and health trying not to hurt flies etc, but curious how to get to 'the line' yourselves.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Heh, yes this proves my point perfectly - believe massaging is very popular with Wagyu beef (they believe wellbeing improves the marbling of the meat), Wales has quite a few farms that do this. Stress is also meant to affect the meat quality, so they spend a lot of time/money making the cows chilled/pampered.

I really do think if we focused more on quality of food and less on how cheap we can get those sticks of broccoli or ribeyes, we'd be better all round.

As an aside, for the more passionate vegans do you have a similar issue with cars? Conscious there's hundreds of thousands of animals killed every week on the roads - guess similar argument holds, you don't HAVE to drive, it sure makes life easier/more enjoyable, but it's certainly not a necessity. Not winding you up, just genuinely curious about how you draw the line. Naturally you get to extreme Buddhists who paralyse their life and health trying not to hurt flies etc, but curious how to get to 'the line' yourselves.

Waygu farms

Day in the Life of a Japanese Wagyu Beef Farmer

A day in the life of a Japanese Wagyu Beef Farmer AKA Japanese wagyu cattle farmer. This video helps explain what is wagyu beef and how it is made in Japan,...

www.youtube.com

Japanese Wagyu Ranch Experience | How do they live?

This is an Ōmi Beef ranch / farm in Shiga Prefecture. Omigyu is one of the top three famous brands of Wagyu in Japan. I think it’s better than Kobe beef, but...

www.youtube.com

 

[413x]

Yeah ok, at risk of offending, it might have been a little outdated.

I mean, I suspect if the vegan videos had clips of terrible conditions like this, they might not get the audience:

Outdoor-pigs hosted at ImgBB

Image Outdoor-pigs hosted in ImgBB

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Image 800wm-1 hosted in ImgBB

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One of those is in Bungay.

I guess the point is animal care is far more convincing an argument than animal abstinence.

UK is definitely a better place to buy meat from if you're going to buy absolutely.

I've seen these places. (I grew up in Suffolk and saw these a lot)

I admit I'm not upto date with beef/pig farming. And does look like things have improved.

I still hate chicken farming. And I think most of us can agree that farming abroad can be pretty abhorrent.

As someone who isn't militant I actually do not have a problem with eating meat where the animal has had a good life and clean death. But intensive farming is a no from me. Particularly the crueler ones.

It's great to see progress like the pictures and videos above.

Shame it wasn't like like that for chickens and especially abroad. Broiler houses are vile places still.

 

[Johno please?]

As an aside, for the more passionate vegans do you have a similar issue with cars? Conscious there's hundreds of thousands of animals killed every week on the roads - guess similar argument holds, you don't HAVE to drive, it sure makes life easier/more enjoyable, but it's certainly not a necessity. Not winding you up, just genuinely curious about how you draw the line. Naturally you get to extreme Buddhists who paralyse their life and health trying not to hurt flies etc, but curious how to get to 'the line' yourselves.

Billions of land animals are killed for the meat/dairy/egg industrys, I think deaths from cars pales in comparison. But cars are also a necessity for a lot of people, (unlike eating meat) the last time I killed a pidgeon with my car was around 6yrs ago.

Asking for the cows horns back suggests to me that he actually really cared for him.

Otherwise why ask for them back at all?

Maybe he wanted to mount them in order to remember him by.

Oh yea, cared so much they sent him to be killed at around half his life expectancy.

Everyone can go vegan?

How do you know? You are not our doctor, you don't know how capable everyone is at cooking, you don't know if we are disable or able (I know that @robfosters cannot do certain things in the kitchen due to his illness). You don't know whether we have the resources and know-how or time to research, you don't know people. You are just ignoring my points again and deflect it with a link.

Stop being so arrogant and pretend that you do and make blanket statements like that. You are acting like one of those flat-earther or a text book religious advocate, read something online and think it must be true. There is no way a website call carnismdebunked is a medical website. If it's on the NHS.gov and perhaps I will have a read. I think that's fair. I will also accept any other official agency or academic papers that has been peer-reviewed.

Nice strawman Raymond, thats why I said "nearly everyone here" and not every single human.

Its not a medical site no, its got rebuttals to all the terrible arguments you keep making ad nauseam though.

The vegan diet

Find out how to be healthy on a vegan diet, including vegan sources of calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B12 and iron.

www.nhs.uk

 

[Raymond Lin]

Nice strawman Raymond, thats why I said "nearly everyone here" and not every single human.

Its not a medical site no, its got rebuttals to all the terrible arguments you keep making ad nauseam though.

The vegan diet

Find out how to be healthy on a vegan diet, including vegan sources of calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B12 and iron.

www.nhs.uk

Your link other is an OPINION site, whilst I am happy to hear your opinion, but using an opinion to support your opinion doesn't really make your opinion any more valid than mine. Opinions are like holes, we all have them. It does not support your case, in the contrary, it does the opposite.

The NHS one I would be happy to read, I notice that it begins it's opening with "You can get most of the nutrients you need from eating a varied and balanced vegan diet." Also it ends with fortified foods such as cereal, not a big fan of cereal...I really don't eat much cereal, perhaps 2 boxes a year, max. Marmite I have perhaps twice a month.

Again, whilst I agree with your cause to save every living being, pushing for veganism, that is TOTAL abandonment of animal products, does not sit well with people. Do you know that? You will, and you are as you can see, you get push back from non-vegan.

You will get the opposite, you will get support if you ask for simply better welfare for animals and reduce animal consumption or use of leather etc.

Don't go for 100%, you need to do it little by little. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Keep pushing veganism, especially with the morality angle, you will get pushback from everyone. ps I have not eaten anything dairy, meat and my shoes today is not leather, my bag is made of cotton, 18 hours and counting...am I a vegan? No, but I am doing my best.