Why are you not vegan....

[Johno please?]

Maybe eat some animal products and your brain will function correctly to understand the point the person is making.

I am still waiting for people like you to come back with how a person who eats only animal foods causes more harm when a whole family can get away with consuming 1-2 animals per year yet every day the food consumed by a vegan has gone through a process which has killed millions of insects etc. 2 animals vs millions very simple math and is FACTS.

This is the problem with you vegans you are so closed minded.

Do you even grow any of your own food I expect not and I was expect you don't go a buy it from a local farm.

If you want to be a vegtard that is your choice I have no issues with this but don't go spreading lies, pushing your agenda as if its how our species should live plus claims it is better for animals also the climate which all are BS.

Well done on one of the most uniformed posts yet, I wont even waste time typing anymore....

1. Difference between intentional and unintentional harm:

Vegans don't demand products that inherently involve violence (i.e. there are ways to source vegan foods without violence and exploitation, while non-vegans foods absolutely must involve violence and exploitation in some way).

2. Veganism minimises crop deaths:

While vegans absolutely should acknowledge that their lifestyles do cause harm, the solution to the practical solution to the problem of animals dying in crop harvesting is not to consume a diet that requires around 10 times more crops (due to the crops used to raised livestock) and maximises land usage, and then on top of that support the largest act of systematic oppression and violence in the history of this planet (2 billion animals murdered every single week via the meat, dairy, egg, leather, wool, and fish industries). There are also a lot of myths that go around that suggest vegans are actually responsible for more animal deaths than meat eaters.

Plant-based foods are good for both health and the environment | University of Oxford

New analysis by researchers from the University of Oxford and the University of Minnesota has identified a range of ‘win-win’ foods that both improve human health and have a low impact on the environment.

www.ox.ac.uk

 

[Tony Edwards]

How many insects deaths by for example a cow 0 in the UK it may be possible some are I am not going to claim otherwise but based on numbers it's not millions now is it compaired to eating plants. (I didn't even mention before how animals are required to restore the soil after the crops have destroyed it)

Correct 1-2 animals for a whole family for 1 year this is coming from farmers you can easily verify this online as well.

If you want to feed off multi animals it will increase but not by much unless I start to eat a plate full of insects/bugs which is being pushed and again groups class this as acceptable but a cow or a chicken laying eggs is not

It has just been explained to you that if a family has chicken that is one animal and then if you include a turkey at christmas that is two. Are you also saying that these people would eat nothing but two animals a year. No veg not wheat that has killed billions of insects? Seriously you arent doing your side any favours by posting rubbish. Maybe follow your own advice before posting again.

If you want to be a vegtard that is your choice I have no issues with this but don't go spreading lies, pushing your agenda as if its how our species should live plus claims it is better for animals also the climate which all are BS.

Of course not eating animals is better for them.

 

[Thekwango]

Maybe eat some animal products and your brain will function correctly to understand the point the person is making.

I am still waiting for people like you to come back with how a person who eats only animal foods causes more harm when a whole family can get away with consuming 1-2 animals per year yet every day the food consumed by a vegan has gone through a process which has killed millions of insects etc. 2 animals vs millions very simple math and is FACTS.

This is the problem with you vegans you are so closed minded.

Do you even grow any of your own food I expect not and I was expect you don't go a buy it from a local farm.

If you want to be a vegtard that is your choice I have no issues with this but don't go spreading lies, pushing your agenda as if its how our species should live plus claims it is better for animals also the climate which all are BS.

I’m an unashamed meat eater - but this post is just utter nonsense.

 

[edGfaCTor]

Well done on one of the most uniformed posts yet, I wont even waste time typing anymore....

1. Difference between intentional and unintentional harm:

Vegans don't demand products that inherently involve violence (i.e. there are ways to source vegan foods without violence and exploitation, while non-vegans foods absolutely must involve violence and exploitation in some way).

2. Veganism minimises crop deaths:

While vegans absolutely should acknowledge that their lifestyles do cause harm, the solution to the practical solution to the problem of animals dying in crop harvesting is not to consume a diet that requires around 10 times more crops (due to the crops used to raised livestock) and maximises land usage, and then on top of that support the largest act of systematic oppression and violence in the history of this planet (2 billion animals murdered every single week via the meat, dairy, egg, leather, wool, and fish industries). There are also a lot of myths that go around that suggest vegans are actually responsible for more animal deaths than meat eaters.

Plant-based foods are good for both health and the environment | University of Oxford

New analysis by researchers from the University of Oxford and the University of Minnesota has identified a range of ‘win-win’ foods that both improve human health and have a low impact on the environment.

www.ox.ac.uk

Good don't ever post again you are chatting 100% BS

Which vegan foods do not cause animal harm 0 you can keep coming up with all the excuses you want about not causing harm on purpose this could be said for a meat eater its required for a human to survive.

Again livestock does not require any crops why do you vegtards keep repeating this go and learn about real farming it is used as I have pointed out before because its a waste product not fit for humans.

Appeal to authority again this is all you people ever do you have no clue (why are you all not growing own crops if its about least harm)

I can tell you are the sort of person who will still support big companies and protesters who like to throw the BS as you have in peoples face then walk into a places like McDonalds.

I shouldn't even waste my time on the claimed study you posted this quote alone sums up what a joke it is "epidemiological cohort studies" let me self report and you can make up whatever fits your agenda which is the case the person running the study is biased for a start and conducted by questionnaires great science

How about you learn to read studies and not post links to articles. (Read the study its a complete joke)

It has just been explained to you that if a family has chicken that is one animal and then if you include a turkey at christmas that is two. Are you also saying that these people would eat nothing but two animals a year. No veg not wheat that has killed billions of insects? Seriously you arent doing your side any favours by posting rubbish. Maybe follow your own advice before posting again.



Of course not eating animals is better for them.

You are being pedantic which is why I mentioned could eat a plate of bugs/insects.

People are choosing to eat chicken or turkey not required 1 cow per family for a whole year do some research or even go speak to a farmer.

I said two because this is would give people more options and I know how much people like dairy.

Veg/Fruit/Wheat are not required in human diet FACT you may want to go and learn something about our species which has been around for millions of years and had no access to those food types wheat is fairly new.

How long has the vegan ideology been around not even 100 years.

I’m an unashamed meat eater - but this post is just utter nonsense.

What is it you have provided info wise 0.

 

[Ahleckz]

Again livestock does not require any crops why do you vegtards keep repeating this go and learn about real farming it is used as I have pointed out before because its a waste product not fit for humans.
.

I’m not a farmer, but I don’t think livestock survive off air…

Predictably, with this level of argument, the rest of your post is nonsense. What’s with the insulting names as well?

 

[edGfaCTor]

I’m not a farmer, but I don’t think livestock survive off air…

Predictably, with this level of argument, the rest of your post is nonsense. What’s with the insulting names as well?

Have you heard of something called grass.

Another poster who claims a person is posting nonsense yet posts nothing.

Our species is not millions of years old?

Wheat has been around for a short period of time?

Humans do not require veg/fruit/wheat?

Yes it's all nonsense with science being wrong but a handful of posters here are correct I give up you have shown me the truth without any evidence.

 

[Minusorange]

Our species is not millions of years old?

No, try 300,000 years

 

[Voltar]

I am not vegan because I enjoy cheese and eggs. Cheese a couple of days a week perhaps but I enjoy eggs every day.

I could gladly kill fish, shellfish and molluscs and tend to chickens for eggs so that much is fine for me ethically. If I could shoot, I’d eat game too. I would not have these things every day though and struggle to understand why you’d want to eat meat/fish every day or multiple times a day unless you lived somewhere which limited your options to that.

However, my days of buying any supermarket meat or non organic meat from outside the UK have been behind me for years. Meat is a special treat in my house once per month. The thought of buying a pack of chicken pieces from a supermarket makes me a little ill as it looks so unappealing.

 

[Johno please?]

Good don't ever post again you are chatting 100% BS

Which vegan foods do not cause animal harm 0 you can keep coming up with all the excuses you want about not causing harm on purpose this could be said for a meat eater its required for a human to survive.

Again livestock does not require any crops why do you vegtards keep repeating this go and learn about real farming it is used as I have pointed out before because its a waste product not fit for humans.

Meat isn't required to live. Not involved in animal agriculture by any chance are you? I'm not wasting much time on you, I don't really like disingenuous people.

Feel free to post your own studies telling me how bad veganism is for the environment.

Are you that ignorant? Most soy for example, isn't consumed by us vegans btw, its used for other industry's, il let you figure which industrys those are...

But no, cows, pigs, lambs, chickens apparently "don't need any crops" imagine typing out such a blatant lie and expecting to get away with it.

 

[edGfaCTor]

No, try 300,000 years

Incorrect

Our species has been around for millions of years you are confused with evolution.

Meat isn't required to live. Not involved in animal agriculture by any chance are you? I'm not wasting much time on you, I don't really like disingenuous people.

Feel free to post your own studies telling me how bad veganism is for the environment.

Are you that ignorant? Most soy for example, isn't consumed by us vegans btw, its used for other industry's, il let you figure which industrys those are...

But no, cows, pigs, lambs, chickens apparently "don't need any crops" imagine typing out such a blatant lie and expecting to get away with it.

Meat is for proper nutrition but if you want to be a person who doesn't develop correctly and has a terrible quality of life I would agree not required.

Look at all the data related to children and how the ones that have been forced to be vegan are having a lot of health/development issues.

I am not involved in animal agriculture myself.

You are not wasting time on myself you said in your last post you wasn't going to comment anymore here you are and it's not about time wasting you have no case.

Lets talk about soy and you are hinting at animals using it which again not required but yes it is an issue I would agree but human consumption is not low soy oil is second globally most used oil after palm.

Pigs will eat anything they are not your friend given the chance it would eat you and cows like the green stuff this is how my family raise them.

If all the animals lets say you listed must eat soy how would they survive in the wild which has none.

 

[Minusorange]

Incorrect

Our species has been around for millions of years you are confused with evolution.

Well if you're going to lump us in with all the other Primates, then most are vegetarian

 

[Johno please?]

Meat is for proper nutrition but if you want to be a person who doesn't develop correctly and has a terrible quality of life I would agree not required.

Look at all the data related to children and how the ones that have been forced to be vegan are having a lot of health/development issues.

I am not involved in animal agriculture myself.

Lets talk about soy and you are hinting at animals using it which again not required but yes it is an issue I would agree but human consumption is not low soy oil is second globally most used oil after palm.

Pigs will eat anything they are not your friend given the chance it would eat you and cows like the green stuff this is how my family raise them.

If all the animals lets say you listed must eat soy how would they survive in the wild which has none.

More babble. I should be struggling to live then considering ive not touched meat for nearly 10 months. So your family is involved in animal agriculture, It was obvious by the insults and lies.

Hahaha this is the best one, you think pigs are like lions? I've met, and petted many pigs, none have shown any aggression, they're like dogs, abuse them and they'll probably bite.

The animals we breed, abuse and kill don't exist in the wild

I'm not hinting, im telling you, its a fact...

Soy

Soy

wwf.panda.org

Drivers of Deforestation

The world loses 5 million hectares of forest each year. What activities are driving this?

ourworldindata.org

"More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception."

 

[Angilion]

Incorrect

Our species has been around for millions of years you are confused with evolution.

Physician, heal thyself!

You're confusing our species (homo sapiens) with (at the very least) the entire homo genus back as far as homo erectus. Even that would only get you ~2 million years, barely enough to qualify as "millions of years". Even if you include the debated homo habilis, you won't go back much further. Not even 3 million years. Even if you go right back to the split from the line that led to chimpanzees, you're still only talking about ~6 million years.

So at the very least you've confused a species with a genus. Which is a pretty major confusion with evolution.

Meat is for proper nutrition but if you want to be a person who doesn't develop correctly and has a terrible quality of life I would agree not required.

That would be true in a purely natural setting, but it's not true with modern technology and infrastructure for food preservation, transportation and distribution.

 

[edGfaCTor]

More babble. I should be struggling to live then considering ive not touched meat for nearly 10 months. So your family is involved in animal agriculture, It was obvious by the insults and lies.

Hahaha this is the best one, you think pigs are like lions? I've met, and petted many pigs, none have shown any aggression, they're like dogs, abuse them and they'll probably bite.

The animals we breed, abuse and kill don't exist in the wild

I'm not hinting, im telling you, its a fact...

Soy

Soy

wwf.panda.org

Drivers of Deforestation

The world loses 5 million hectares of forest each year. What activities are driving this?

ourworldindata.org

"More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception."

10 months are you serious keep continuing to post it shows with every one how you are so out of your depth.

I have petted a lion what does that mean nothing and pigs will eat anything you like to go on about animals yet you do not even understand them it's nothing to do with abuse it's nature.

The animals my family breed are grass fed only and yes they are bred safely this is not the case in wild again learn something about animals you are stuck in a fantasy land.

You don't know what facts are.

Your sources are again useless more cherry picking also look up the authors they are vegans so a very nice biased bit of info on the soy one (did you even read it anyway to make it simple one of the graphes shows 19.2% humans use not your claimed 7% this is form your own source and you cant get it right)

You are not understanding animals do not require soy the same as humans do not require it use your brain.

Physician, heal thyself!

You're confusing our species (homo sapiens) with (at the very least) the entire homo genus back as far as homo erectus. Even that would only get you ~2 million years, barely enough to qualify as "millions of years". Even if you include the debated homo habilis, you won't go back much further. Not even 3 million years. Even if you go right back to the split from the line that led to chimpanzees, you're still only talking about ~6 million years.

So at the very least you've confused a species with a genus. Which is a pretty major confusion with evolution.



That would be true in a purely natural setting, but it's not true with modern technology and infrastructure for food preservation, transportation and distribution.

Not at all and I said millions of years is 2 million not millions.

People need to stay of the wiki and random google search these are not valid info.

The last bit not sure what that is referring to is that a claim for example a plant based burger is better nutrition wise to a real beef one because of what technology etc? If so again another person who is wrong.

If it's related to health its true look up children studies some countries are even passing bills etc to stop parents forcing it on them it is extremely damaging to health and technology cant fix poor lifestyle/diet which is why we have serious problems now with peoples declining health plus poor quality of life.

 

[Ahleckz]

This guy is even crazier and telling more lies than @Rroff !

We have a poor quality of life and a serious problem with health because of veganism? And, can you post a source showing countries are legislating against veganism. I’d google it, but you tell me these aren’t valid.

 

[katie279]

I'm not sure what point either side is making here, but possibly interesting that 2-2.6m years ago our ancestors started eating meat and this lead to the huge brain expansion that ultimately separated humans from primates.

There's debate about the start of this - ie whether we scavenged carcasses or hunted small animals, but meat was a foundation of what made us human.

This also plays through in the fact that many of the health impacts/potential risks of meat-free diets are neurological (eg increased risks of stroke, dementia, etc).

Also fascinating how quickly it can affect the brain - eg B12 deficiency (which is widespread in vegan diets) directly affects IQ.

As I say, not exactly sure of what the point is, but I'm fascinated by the brain, so thought might be interesting!

Certainly this is one of the bigger niggles I'd have with vegan diet, there are so many core nutrients that we just can't get from vegetables or nuts that have neurological impacts - none that are immediate disasters, just long range decline/risk points.

 

[katie279]

This guy is even crazier and telling more lies than @Rroff !

We have a poor quality of life and a serious problem with health because of veganism? And, can you post a source showing countries are legislating against veganism. I’d google it, but you tell me these aren’t valid.

I think he's possibly not the most articulate, but there's actually some truth, even in countries close to home.

Eg German Health Board categorically states that vegan diets are not recommended for pregnant women and children.

Vegane Ernährung kann Risiken haben

Eine ausgewogene Ernährung fördert die Gesundheit. Viele Menschen essen daher weniger Fleisch, Vegetarier verzichten sogar ganz darauf. Veganer gehen noch einen Schritt weiter: Sie setzen ausschließlich auf pflanzliche Lebensmittel - doch dabei gilt es einiges zu beachten.

www.bundesregierung.de

Belgium has likewise legislated against it on grounds of health, so parents that force it on their children could indeed be prosecuted:

Making your kids go vegan can mean jail time in Belgium

The Royal Academy of Medicine of Belgium determined that it's "not ethical" to impose a strict vegan diet on kids. Opinions vary worldwide.

qz.com

This has been backed up by recent studies:

Is vegetarianism healthy for children?

According to the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics' influential position statement on vegetarianism, meat and seafood can be replaced with milk, soy/legumes, and eggs without any negative effects ...

www.tandfonline.com

The short is that whilst most scientists are comfortable that adults can lead pretty healthy lives as vegetarians, they're much less comfortable about meat free diets on pregnant women and children, hence they're recommending against them.

 

[moon man]

I'm not sure what point either side is making here, but possibly interesting that 2-2.6m years ago our ancestors started eating meat and this lead to the huge brain expansion that ultimately separated humans from primates.

There's debate about the start of this - ie whether we scavenged carcasses or hunted small animals, but meat was a foundation of what made us human.

This also plays through in the fact that many of the health impacts/potential risks of meat-free diets are neurological (eg increased risks of stroke, dementia, etc).

Also fascinating how quickly it can affect the brain - eg B12 deficiency (which is widespread in vegan diets) directly affects IQ.

As I say, not exactly sure of what the point is, but I'm fascinated by the brain, so thought might be interesting!

Certainly this is one of the bigger niggles I'd have with vegan diet, there are so many core nutrients that we just can't get from vegetables or nuts that have neurological impacts - none that are immediate disasters, just long range decline/risk points.

Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or animals, it's made by microorganisms (bacteria). It used to be that we could get B12 from our drinking water, but since our water supply is now treated and chlorinated to kill bacteria, it no longer supplies this important nutrient.​

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals or plants. Animals, including humans, must obtain it directly or indirectly from bacteria. Farmed animals receive B12 by eating fortified (supplemented) feed, being exposed to bacteria-laden manure and drinking untreated (contaminated) water. Meat contains B12 because the animals accumulate the bacteria over the course of their lifetime being exposed to manure in their living environments, some being fed manure—cows are oftentimes fed poultry waste.

Think i will stick to marmite thanks anyway

 

[katie279]

Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or animals, it's made by microorganisms (bacteria). It used to be that we could get B12 from our drinking water, but since our water supply is now treated and chlorinated to kill bacteria, it no longer supplies this important nutrient.​

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals or plants. Animals, including humans, must obtain it directly or indirectly from bacteria. Farmed animals receive B12 by eating fortified (supplemented) feed, being exposed to bacteria-laden manure and drinking untreated (contaminated) water. Meat contains B12 because the animals accumulate the bacteria over the course of their lifetime being exposed to manure in their living environments, some being fed manure—cows are oftentimes fed poultry waste.

Think i will stick to marmite thanks anyway

Absolutely know this - not sure the point you're making, the simple point is meat is rich in B12 and 50% of vegans are deficient in it. Much like mushrooms are rich in vitamin D even though we can generate from the sun. There is also subspecification of vitamin classes that's emerged, so it's a little more complex than simply one family of 'B12', so meat and Marmite are slightly different in observed benefits.

But yes, I don't think we should recommend vegans go back to untreated water or eating manure....

Marmite is an excellent source of B12 - highly recommend it, wonder if more people around the world ate it how many vegan health issues would be avoided - Marmite on my naan bread ...?

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

I'm not sure what point either side is making here, but possibly interesting that 2-2.6m years ago our ancestors started eating meat and this lead to the huge brain expansion that ultimately separated humans from primates.

There's debate about the start of this - ie whether we scavenged carcasses or hunted small animals, but meat was a foundation of what made us human.

This also plays through in the fact that many of the health impacts/potential risks of meat-free diets are neurological (eg increased risks of stroke, dementia, etc).

Also fascinating how quickly it can affect the brain - eg B12 deficiency (which is widespread in vegan diets) directly affects IQ.

As I say, not exactly sure of what the point is, but I'm fascinated by the brain, so thought might be interesting!

Certainly this is one of the bigger niggles I'd have with vegan diet, there are so many core nutrients that we just can't get from vegetables or nuts that have neurological impacts - none that are immediate disasters, just long range decline/risk points.

This sums up the thread nicely.