Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

Who will rule Westeros?

  • Total voters
    471
  • Poll closed .
PlacidCasual said:
I think a lot of the complaints about this episode is a sign of how spoiled we have become over the last decade. The MCU and GOT have raised film and TV storytelling to an epic scale and we expect an ever ratcheting thrill..

I thought the episode was brilliant. I understand the White Walker dissatisfaction but I personally think the implacability is part of their otherness. The Night King doesn’t engage Jon because their is no emotion, it is superfluous to his goal. In that respect there is logic to assassination rather than defeat in combat because he had virtually won. As to Theon the spear charge is an act of agency. His death is certain only how he embraces it matters, better to be proactive in your own death at this point than to meekly deny the undeniable.

The implacable menace of the White Walkers is the difference in the game of thrones between those who put the realm first or themselves first. They aren’t the plot, they are a device to winnow the protagonists.

Utterly brilliant from start to finish.
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Good to see someone else gets it.

I think some of the episode was clunky insofar as stuff done for visual effect/budget saving (the Dothraki charge for instance; lights looked cool, horror of them going out instantly, horses are expensive, convenient) and plot-armoured characters plot-armour being way too obvious (all the secondary characters who’re part of the ‘team’ now). Outrage in the past when fan favourites were killed off against expectations, then eventual praise for GoT not falling into bog standard tropes, then outrage when people wanted a conventional ‘chosen one’ hero vs villain sword fight where everyone just stands around watching while they have it off... which clearly never would have happened because as said, the NK was never really interested in him personally, as much as the audience wanted him to be.
 
dowie said:
I assumed she was going to take down the ice dragon with that thing... not use it as a pogo stick or whatever she did in order to make the big leap... did she use it even or did she sneak up a tree in the garden and stay quiet for a but? Or was she doing her assassin/faces trick and pretending to be a wight?
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She killed a few wights on the battlements with it, then snapped it half Darth Maul style (as was intended in it’s design) when the fighting went into the narrow passages where a long weapon would have been an impediment.

She snuck up on them (you see the a White Walker’s hair move in the breeze of her wake and he does a half glance just before the NK draws his sword) the same way she snuck up on Jon in the exact same spot in Episode 1 - he even says, in true GoT overt foreshadowing style “how did you sneak up on me?” given the Godswood is meant to be somewhat silent and still.
 
dowie said:
Oh come on, she's always been tough, the first scene we see her in she's showing a dislike of girly stuff then demonstrating she's better at shooting a bow and arrow than her brother.


Then she gets into a scrap with the prince:


Kills a fat lad:


The later kills probably have a bit too much swearing to put in here but she certainly killed a few people during her journey with the Hound and so on...
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Yes, but there’s a huge difference between that and killing the night king.
 
Somnambulist said:
She killed a few wights on the battlements with it, then snapped it half Darth Maul style (as was intended in it’s design) when the fighting went into the narrow passages where a long weapon would have been an impediment.

She snuck up on them (you see the a White Walker’s hair move in the breeze of her wake and he does a half glance just before the NK draws his sword) the same way she snuck up on Jon in the exact same spot in Episode 1 - he even says, in true GoT overt foreshadowing style “how did you sneak up on me?” given the Godswood is meant to be somewhat silent and still.
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Yeah but for all those assassin skills, why did she scream as she leapt at him? Just keep quiet and he wouldn’t have known she was there.
 
Somnambulist said:
She killed a few wights on the battlements with it, then snapped it half Darth Maul style (as was intended in it’s design) when the fighting went into the narrow passages where a long weapon would have been an impediment.
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What was the spring for though? I was hoping it might have also functioned as a projectile to take down the ice dragon or something?

She snuck up on them (you see the a White Walker’s hair move in the breeze of her wake and he does a half glance just before the NK draws his sword) the same way she snuck up on Jon in the exact same spot in Episode 1 - he even says, in true GoT overt foreshadowing style “how did you sneak up on me?” given the Godswood is meant to be somewhat silent and still.
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That's a good point, yeah it does just seem that she snuck up on them then jumped.
 
robfosters said:
Yes, but there’s a huge difference between that and killing the night king.
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Of course there is, the point there was she's never really been this fragile little girl, she's always been quite tough, she makes her first kill in season 1 and starts training with a sword in season 1 too, she's already seen to be skilled with a bow in the first episode and a big portion of her arc is getting further training...

She makes a few more kills when travelling with the hound, she carries on her water dance sword stuff during that period, she gets further training in Bravos, she turns into some deadly assassin etc...

it has been a progressive thing through the whole series.
 
dowie said:
What was the spring for though? I was hoping it might have also functioned as a projectile to take down the ice dragon or something?
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The picture with a spring is a fake! Here's a screencap from Episode 1:

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robfosters said:
Yeah but for all those assassin skills, why did she scream as she leapt at him? Just keep quiet and he wouldn’t have known she was there.
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Make him turn around so she can stab him in the same spot in the belly where the children of the forest stabbed him in the first place all those years ago.

It’s all a plan!

(Or just to make good TV)
 
dowie said:
He did, he threw one when Jon was is a scuffle with him, he missed
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Rewatching hardholme and dragon downing episode, just don't understand why the NK is in a scuffle with Jon. Why not just repeat the spear throw that downed Veserion which he does from sidelines? He knows they have two dragons, why would he 1v2 them? When 0v3 he managed to bring one down, just repeat 0v2...0v1= 3v0. If a tactic worked for him why not reuse it?

Is it confirmed there were undead mammoths yet? Not been able to watch a clear version yet. :(
 
LeMson said:
Rewatching hardholme and dragon downing episode, just don't understand why the NK is in a scuffle with Jon. Why not just repeat the spear throw that downed Veserion which he does from sidelines? He knows they have two dragons, why would he 1v2 them? When 0v3 he managed to bring one down, just repeat 0v2...0v1= 3v0. If a tactic worked for him why not reuse it?
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Well he was already flying there. I guess just because he was successful in throwing a spear from the ground last time (when they were unaware of that risk) doesn't mean he'd be successful again.

Is it confirmed there were undead mammoths yet? Not been able to watch a clear version yet. :(
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I don't remember seeing any.
 
I'm going to attempt to play devil's advocate here and attempt to justify some of the military tactics..

Undead side:

  1. Regarding not going for repeated spear throwing, the conditions when the NK downed the first dragon were in broad daylight and the dragons were caught off guard. This time, given it being night, maybe the NK concluded that even he had a low chance of hitting one again. He also had a dragon now, so it seems plausible he'd opt for air-to-air combat rather than ground-to-air spear flinging. If he'd gone for spear flinging, he might not even have been close enough to the action due to too many of his undead army being in the way, plus Viserion may have been much more vulnerable to the two living dragons had he been left on 'autopilot' to attack Winterfell.
  2. Tying into the first point, I'm guessing it's safe to assume the blizzard was purposely brought on by the NK, and it came just in time. Assuming his white walker generals were not immune to dragon fire like he is and that they've created the vast majority of his army of the undead by proxy, then they and the army would've been wiped out by one strafing run from a dragon, and very nearly were until the NK presumably summoned the blizzard to conceal them.

Living side:

  1. On holding back the dragons in the beginning - I'm guessing they didn't know whether the NK had night vision and would be ground based with spears at hand or not. They also wouldn't have known he could summon blizzard-like conditions to protect his generals, meaning the NK himself wouldn't have to be in a defensive spear-flinging position to protect them. Of course they still had to chance it seeking him/the generals out anyway due to the army of the undead hopelessly outnumbering the living.
  2. Reaching a bit here, but on the Dothraki charge, maybe there'd been hope for success as the undead consist of foot soldiers and wouldn't have had any specialist anti-cavalry units/weapons, like pikemen. Also, as could be seen on the map in Wnterfell, the living predicted the undead would outnumber them enough that they'd surround Winterfell in a nearly 180° arc. Given that, it would be very difficult to have Dothraki lying in wait in the darkness in an effective flanking position, plus they would've also stood considerable risk of being ambushed that way.
  3. Regarding having all the armies of the living in Winterfell / manning the wall, my guess would be Winterfell is simply too small. Also plenty of those in the living army weren't trained / suited to ranged combat or even defensive combat (in the case of the Dothraki). There's also the issue that Viserion could roast everyone alive in the courtyard and/or torch down the walls and battlements of Winterfell single-handedly, making relying on staying within or on the walls a potentially bad idea.
  4. Flaming barriers / fortifications - possibly a simple one here - maybe they didn't have time to build something more substantial. The north was blindsided by the fall of the wall and the dead didn't seem to waste much time charging south.
This is obviously my strictly amateur 'devil's advocate' take on it - I'm no Sun Tzu or medieval general :p
 
Dunno how people are missing all these details from watching it, I've only watched it once and noticed pretty much everything you lot are moaning about, maybe my TV is set up really bright?

She used her weapon during the battle, went past the white walkers at speed I'd imagine (as his hair moved) and got the killing blow in style (its TV did you really expect her to just stab him in the back, if she had you would all be even more disappointed)

She's been training throughout the whole lot, hell she would Muller Jon in a 1 on 1. She has killed her fair share just not in open battle.

NK doesn't even talk, a main character going onto the end with no dialog just doesn't fit TV, would have to have a full ep just to show his back story and to show what he was actually after, not a luxury they can afford.

Can't wait to see Jamie kill his sister...
 
I was having a chat with someone yesterday about the whole “Arya coming out of nowhere” seemingly being a proper criticism. He looked at me for a moment and said “well.... I assume she slowly made her way there, using her training, as was inferred and is logical.... :confused:”

I did lol. It is kind of a stupidly overzealous criticism :o
 
Nitefly said:
I was having a chat with someone yesterday about the whole “Arya coming out of nowhere” seemingly being a proper criticism. He looked at me for a moment and said “well.... I assume she slowly made her way there, using her training, as was inferred and is logical.... :confused:”

I did lol. It is kind of a stupidly overzealous criticism :o
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As was inferred and is logical....

Come on, admit it, your friend is Spock or Sheldon Cooper :)
 
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