Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

[Washout]

... Calling Sansa the smartest person she knows is a load of **** too considering she's spent no more than a few weeks with her since she returned to Winterfell and has done nothing to support that claim.

Arya killing the NK singlehandedly is completely unearned. It would be like Davos sneaking into the Red Keep to kill Tywin at the end of season 4. People also seem to think she's the best fighter in the show which again is completely unearned. She spent at most a year or so training with the Faceless men, how the hell does some teenage girl, with very little fighting experience outside of lessons with Syrio, become the best fighter in Westeros in such a small period of time? She doesn't, she's only so powerful because she's D&Ds favourite, a borderline Mary Sue...

I’d say she was back at Winterfell for a solid year, if not more while Jon was away; not a few weeks. Enough time to see her sister has become pretty good at being the lady of Winterfell and running things. Something she wouldn’t be able to do. It’s not a stretch for her to respect her like that.

As for comparing her abilities to Davos... come on that’s ridiculous. She grew up being handy at what the boys did in the practice yard. Sneaking out to have a go.
Learnt sword fighting from a master at a young age and practiced every day for years. Spent a lot of time with the hound too eating ******* chicken.
She spent at least a year training with the most feared assassins in that world and passed all their tests, mystical and physical. Even killing one of them.
Even in a fantasy world, it’s not a stretch to say she’s a trained killer.
If she’s a Mary Sue, (really starting to hate that term- it’s a lazy catchall) then so’s every fictional character ever who learnt how to fight. Rocky, Luke skywalker, Daniel san, Bruce Wayne. And she did it over years of us watching without a single montage.

 

[drunkenmaster]

She also took quite a few pointers from The Hound during their road trip together and it is also inferred that she has natural talent for it that just needed a bit of shaping with bits that show her instincts for fighting despite not a lot of experience:

https://youtu.be/GWmGrR9a818?t=366

It's also worth remembering that even as a kid, no idea how old she was supposed to be in the first episode, but she's there embarrassing Bran because Bran can't hit a barn door with an arrow and she is great with one. She's also while only playing with a sword, but she has some natural aptitude. Basically even from the very first episode they make fairly clear that she trained with arrows, and trains with swords but her dad doesn't like it. She's supposed to be a lady but from that first ep she was a warrior. Combine that with spending potentially months in Kings Landing learning from a great sword fighter, then she learns some from the hound then then learns from the faceless man who saw in her something special enough to offer to train her and he's basically the best assassin who ever lived.

I'd say her story makes more sense than the likes of Sansa who was a spoiled brat, led no one, didn't make a good decision in her life but somehow still ends up queen in the most ludicrous, game of thrones breaking decision and the north treat her like a beloved leader, not the brat who sucked up the Lannisters and treated people like they were beneath her as a spoilt child.

 

[Rroff]

It's also worth remembering that even as a kid, no idea how old she was supposed to be in the first episode, but she's there embarrassing Bran because Bran can't hit a barn door with an arrow and she is great with one. She's also while only playing with a sword, but she has some natural aptitude. Basically even from the very first episode they make fairly clear that she trained with arrows, and trains with swords but her dad doesn't like it.

I'd forgotten about those early scenes.

She spent at least a year training with the most feared assassins in that world and passed all their tests, mystical and physical. Even killing one of them.

Something I think the show doesn't really convey fully - just how feared and capable they were and ultimately she wasn't out of place amongst them.

 

[Richdog]

She also took quite a few pointers from The Hound during their road trip together and it is also inferred that she has natural talent for it that just needed a bit of shaping with bits that show her instincts for fighting despite not a lot of experience:

https://youtu.be/GWmGrR9a818?t=366

Oh come on, it's still a ridiculous stretch. Regardless of natural aptitude, becoming a weapon master takes many years of experience. Training for a mere year with the Faceless Men would make her still a beginner by the end of it, not a master assassin. It's is all simply convenient plot armour, so lets stop trying to justify it as though it is all perfectly logical and reasonable.

 

[Rroff]

Oh come on, it's still a ridiculous stretch. Regardless of natural aptitude, becoming a weapon master takes many years of experience. Training for a mere year with the Faceless Men would make her still a beginner by the end of it, not a master assassin. It's is all simply convenient plot armour, so lets stop trying to justify it as though it is all perfectly logical and reasonable.

As far as TVs or movies go is far from a ridiculous stretch! (7 seasons showing her slowly developing her talents).

 

[Richdog]

As far as TVs or movies go is far from a ridiculous stretch! (7 seasons showing her slowly developing her talents).

Yeah, 6 season showing her slowly developing her talents and then then jumping forward to a Marvel superhero in the last two seasons. All contrived so she can kill the Night King like a flying ninja.

If she had ultimately sneaked into Kings Landing and killed Cersei using the face of her Grand Maester I would have found that much more plausible and easier to stomach. Instead, we were deprived of what should be an epic showdown with what was supposed to be the scourge of humanity.

It is scary how much of the show in seasons 1-6 was rendered meaningless within these last two seasons. Awful, awful and terribly rushed writing.

 

[Tombstone]

Lol..poor Varys, seems he was hoping for a different outcome

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[krooton]

Petition for updating his username to Richfroth

 

[neoboy]

Are they all crying in that documentary when they read the script because they realised how bad it was?

 

[Scam]

Hey Richdog. Actually what happened was that there's a guy who works for the NK, he's called Dave or something. He usually just carries the bags on their treks but was asked to come along to Winterfell because you know, big battle, every man is useful etc. So this guy Dave popped off for a wee in the forest about like 20mins before Jon and the NK had their little death stare. It was here that Arya found him, stabbed him in the back and stole his face. So Arya stole his face and just mooched into the clearing with the NK and his best buddies "whatup guys", and she was just standing there all chill and like, waiting for it to go down. This Dave chap was always climbing trees when out and about with the NK, he was just like that, all his mates knew. They took the pee but it's like "whatever leave him be". So when Arya (as Dave) started climbing the tree all his mates were like "oh here he goes again, just ignore him, flippin' attention-seeker". Then when things got really serious between NK and Branflake, Arya knew it was time. She whipped off the mask/face of Dave, before Dave's mates could go "wtf" she was there in mid-air and gave him the pointy end.

 

[Richdog]

Petition for updating his username to Richfroth

My reactions are mild compared to over on Reddit!

In the end we all know (or should know) that the writing of Season 8 (and Seaosn 7, to a bit of a more forgivable extent) is monumentally terrible. At this point it is a generally accepted fact among fans and critics alike.

 

[robfosters]

Petition for updating his username to Richfroth

He does moan a lot for someone lucky enough to live in sunny California!

 

[MarkA]

Hey Richdog. Actually what happened was that there's a guy who works for the NK, he's called Dave or something. He usually just carries the bags on their treks but was asked to come along to Winterfell because you know, big battle, every man is useful etc. So this guy Dave popped off for a wee in the forest about like 20mins before Jon and the NK had their little death stare. It was here that Arya found him, stabbed him in the back and stole his face. So Arya stole his face and just mooched into the clearing with the NK and his best buddies "whatup guys", and she was just standing there all chill and like, waiting for it to go down. This Dave chap was always climbing trees when out and about with the NK, he was just like that, all his mates knew. They took the pee but it's like "whatever leave him be". So when Arya (as Dave) started climbing the tree all his mates were like "oh here he goes again, just ignore him, flippin' attention-seeker". Then when things got really serious between NK and Branflake, Arya knew it was time. She whipped off the mask/face of Dave, before Dave's mates could go "wtf" she was there in mid-air and gave him the pointy end.

I lol'd

 

[Richdog]

He does moan a lot for someone lucky enough to live in sunny California!

If by moan you mean vehemently disagree with anyone saying that GOT S8 was well written or makes sense (in the context of the setting) then yup, I will likely never stop moaning about it. Along with the other 98% of the fanbase.

Oh and no, thankfully I don't live in California.

 

[robfosters]

If by moan you mean vehemently disagree with anyone saying that GOT S8 was well written or makes sense (in the context of the setting) then yup, I will likely never stop moaning about it. Along with the other 98% of the fanbase.

Oh and no, thankfully I don't live in California.

I’m sure you did at one point.

 

[Richdog]

I’m sure you did at one point.

I have never lived in the USA, nor do I plan to within the forseeable future. I may have done a road trip a couple of years back though.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Oh come on, it's still a ridiculous stretch. Regardless of natural aptitude, becoming a weapon master takes many years of experience. Training for a mere year with the Faceless Men would make her still a beginner by the end of it, not a master assassin. It's is all simply convenient plot armour, so lets stop trying to justify it as though it is all perfectly logical and reasonable.

But she didn't, that's the point, she was obviously already training as a kid with warriors and teachers who weren't supposed to be teaching her. When she started training with the swordmaster in Kings Landing she wasn't a beginner she already had some skill. Also people who try to pick up something later in life simply aren't as natural as someone who started learning the same talent as a child. So she likely did train for years as kid, you think she became essentially a master archer by 10 or whatever she was supposed to be, because she picked that up over the last three weeks, not the previous few years? Then as said, further lessons from one of the best swords men in the world, then a year of gruelling training with a mystical tint to it? Then there is the fact that she is also naturally small, fast and agile vs big lumbering oafs by comparison. Brienne may be a match for other men in armour on a battle field, but none of them are quick or agile and they really played that in their sparring session, Brienne was slow and swinging with big moves and Arya was dancing around them.

Remember that though the dude got his head a little exploded against the Mountain, one of the reasons he lasted so long and got on top at various points was agility and speed which are both valuable weapons against people with big slow weapons.

To me she trained for basically 8 years in the show on and off with maybe literally the best swordfighter in Westeros and then the best assassin in the known world, which may or may have not come with some mystical powers, and she was learning to fight since she was probably 6-7 years old... she was never a lady, always wanted to be a warrior. Compared to most people in the show who she faced, what was their training?

Training quite a lot with the army, but zero personal training, it's all several hundred people, all frankly a bit crap, training against each other. The fact is armies win by numbers in general, not amazing training, armies lose most of their men and it's a win by attrition, not really training and skill. Most of the people she faced had little to no training.

 

[Scam]

which may or may have not come with some mystical powers

The whole being-able-to-wear-someone-else's-face-thing is kinda useful too. Hence my sarcastic post above

 

[Minusorange]

So... would you still recommend the show to someone that's not seen it?

I think I would. For me, S1 to S6 is still some of the best TV out there.

Absolutely, prior to season 8 it was some of the best written, acted, produced and directed television ever made, season 8 just becomes some of the worst written but everything else remains, if I was to watch again I'd stop at the end of Season 7