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Soldato
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Was Colin Kaepernick a Marxist?

He was and is a mediocre American football player, well past his prime, who has successfully grifted his way to continued sponsorship based on protesting a lie. He may or may not be a Marxist.


No, so you've decided because a couple of people who like to claim they speak for everyone who support the idea of BLM (which they clearly don't) claim to be Marxist, it means anyone who kneels supports Marxists. That is some twisted logic. The players have made it clear why they kneel and it isn't to do with Marxism, for 99% of people it never had anything to do with Marxism. You just want to keep tagging it to the Marxist line as it's easier to berate that way. As for the fans who boo'd well they got drowned out, these players are probably the most popular squad in my 50 years. I'm sure they will continue to kneel, some fans and politicians attempted to make a culture war out of it and called their 2 second protest "gesture politics" and it backfired badly on them.


It's vacous nonsence.

Kneeling was popularised by the death of a career criminal who died after his arrest when there is no evidence provided of racial animus on behalf of the cops.

Kneeling is tained by the Marxist BLM organisation in a similiar fashion to the Roman salute being tainted by fascism.

BLM can mean one of two things both of which make no sense to support.

One is a violent, nasty, anti semitic, Marxist organisation that, amongst other things, wants to do away with the traditional family unit and get rid of the police.

The other is a vague sentiment following the meaning of the words in the slogan....

.... with the suggestion being that society as a whole doesn't care for black lives or cares for them less than other ethnicities.

This is demonstrable nonsense.

The single biggest cause of a violent untimely death for a black persons in the UK and the US is being killed by another black person.

It's true that most whites murdered are murdered by other whites but the rates for blacks killing blacks, on a per capita basis are massively higher than the rates for whites killing whites.

Interracially, on a per capita basis, blacks kill whites at around twelve times the rate as the other way around in the US.


The police kill, arrest and stop a disproportionate amount of blacks based on their percentage of the population but these disparities are caused primarily by the disproportionate violent crime rates for blacks as reported by witnesses to crimes.


In the US whites arrested for violent crimes are significantly more likely to be killed by the police than blacks arrested for violent crimes.

Blacks are 3.57 times more likely to be arrested for a violent crime vs whites in the US but are only 2.5 times as likely to be killed over the course of their lives by police than whites
The claim is often then made that blacks commit more crime either because they are poor or because of some legacy of suffering from slavery and segregation.

Neither of these make any sense when examined more closely.

There are nearly three times as many whites living in poverty in the US than blacks as an absolute number (the percentage for blacks as group is about double that of whites but there are far fewer blacks overall than whites).


So if poverty was the main issue then the poor whites should be massively inflating the rate of overall violent crimes for whites vs the smaller number of blacks living in poverty on the US.

If a legacy of oppression was the cause of crime then we could expect one of the most consistently oppressed groups in all of history (the Jews) to top the per capita rates for violent crime but we don't see this.

Instead we see them and other minority groups who often entered the US poor like Koreans and Indians not only surpassing blacks in many metrics (including not being arrested or incarcerated) but also significantly beating the white majority in many cases.

The conclusion should be obvious.

Culture matters and not all cultures are equal.

Whites don't underperform Koreans in many metrics in the US due to racism, systemic or otherwise, they do so because large parts of white culture in the US are inferior to large parts of the culture adopted by Koreans living in the US when it comes to things like economic success and avoiding incarceration.

The same applies to other racial groups when compared to one another.

You can also look at the significant disparities within 'blacks' as a group.

Whites are one of the least likely of all racial groups to goto university in the UK.

Afro Caribbeans attend a rate close to whites but black Africans attend at a much higher rate than either whites or Afro Caribbeans.


Again the answer is in culture not racism.

People are done taking uncritical lectures by the likes of BLM supporters about things like supposed white privellege because their claims are all based on lies.
 
Caporegime
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Who cares. Who are they to tell the England players how they can protest and more importantly what they are protesting. They've made it clear several times why they kneel. You wouldn't want other to speak for what you might be protesting, I'm sure you can speak for yourself. If you and others want to keep trying to tag it to the Marxist side of BLM then good luck. I think you've already lost this one.

And who is anyone else to tell people they can't boo the England players for doing so?
 
Soldato
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If the limited 5 originators in the UK proves true, there should be some apology from the influencers who all over-reacted Boris/Kier/William ......

R4pm yesterday they inteviewed a Prof / behavioural psychologist on social media, who was saying (if, they needed anyone with a qualification to say it)
that most of the tweet spread is from folks who forwarded(whatever the terminology is) the tweets, in indignation, to friends (so that would be the woke),
and, those people, should engage their brain - if you are not part of the solution ....
 

Raz

Raz

Soldato
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Was Colin Kaepernick a Marxist? No, so you've decided because a couple of people who like to claim they speak for everyone who support the idea of BLM (which they clearly don't) claim to be Marxist, it means anyone who kneels supports Marxists. That is some twisted logic. The players have made it clear why they kneel and it isn't to do with Marxism, for 99% of people it never had anything to do with Marxism. You just want to keep tagging it to the Marxist line as it's easier to berate that way. As for the fans who boo'd well they got drowned out, these players are probably the most popular squad in my 50 years. I'm sure they will continue to kneel, some fans and politicians attempted to make a culture war out of it and called their 2 second protest "gesture politics" and it backfired badly on them.

The problem with bending the knee is that it's essentially a slap in the face for all those people who aren't black but have wrongly suffered at the hands of the police. If a white person is wrongly killed by police then there's usually no movement to fight/protest for them, but if it's a black person it automatically becomes a race issue.

I haven't seen the stats but one would assume non-white and non-black people suffer the same racism under such a racist police force..?

Racism is just one issue under the woke thing, even people like Richard Dawkins seem get cancelled...
 
Soldato
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The problem with bending the knee is that it's essentially a slap in the face for all those people who aren't black but have wrongly suffered at the hands of the police. If a white person is wrongly killed by police then there's usually no movement to fight/protest for them, but if it's a black person it automatically becomes a race issue.

I haven't seen the stats but one would assume non-white and non-black people suffer the same racism under such a racist police force..?

Racism is just one issue under the woke thing, even people like Richard Dawkins seem get cancelled...
Stats are broken down very well here. In the US its around 1000 per year, half of which are white, a quarter of which are black.
https://youtu.be/vmgxtcbc4iU
 
Soldato
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TBH anyone who goes to speak at a uni is going to get some group trying to "cancel" them these days. They all want attention on their new victim groups.

That head a few years ago who told them to get lost or be expelled had the right idea.
 
Man of Honour
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It's a fact that the UK is one of the countries where people express the least amount of racial animus towards others.



I'm not sorry if facts upset your bigoted narrative.

Actual reported racist incidents may vary country to country but if a country is very racially homogeneous then there's not going to the same amount of opportunity for racially aggravated crime or abuse to take place.

You reckon France and Germany are more racist than Pakistan?

The problem with bending the knee is that it's essentially a slap in the face for all those people who aren't black but have wrongly suffered at the hands of the police. If a white person is wrongly killed by police then there's usually no movement to fight/protest for them, but if it's a black person it automatically becomes a race issue.

I haven't seen the stats but one would assume non-white and non-black people suffer the same racism under such a racist police force..?

Racism is just one issue under the woke thing, even people like Richard Dawkins seem get cancelled...

Wouldn't the argument against that be that if the 'black movement' against police brutality is successful and the police get reformed then it benefits all races?
 
Soldato
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I haven't seen the stats but one would assume non-white and non-black people suffer the same racism under such a racist police force..?

The sort of racism that sees Indians stopped at 5/6 the rate of whites and Chinese people at 1/3 of the rate for white people in the UK, on a per capita basis.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.../policing/stop-and-search/latest#by-ethnicity

Similiar stats exist in the UK and US for arrests, incarceration and police involved deaths.

You are being lied to by some very sinister and committed people.
 
Caporegime
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Racism is not dead, but it is on life support — kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as “racists.” - Thomas Sowell.

You have to be with the right crowd, at the right time to ever hear racism in this country. It's not just thrown around like it is in some. 99% of people do not care what race someone is.

But the race grifters are keeping it going in any way they can, because they live for it.

Yup, in face it's big business these days - diversity consultants etc.. get to charge a hefty rate at big companies and universities etc.. If they're well know/have a book then it can be 15k or 20k an hour even.


Nope, the current trend for taking a knee originated with Kaepernick's NFL protests. sure it's not a totally obscure gesture so no doubt you can grab other examples of people taking a knee through history... or Game of Thrones even, but that isn't what started the trend being talked about.

Proper white people in here claiming racism is almost dead in the UK. Its cringeworthy.

Quite. People are frankly deluded if they think it doesnt exist.

No one said that it doesn't exist though and it is objectively true that the UK is one of the least racist places on the planet and the vast majority of people aren't racist.

Interestingly Chroniclard mentions white people, he may have a point there - at least looking at US data white people generally don't have strong in-group bias/preference, on the other hand, some other groups seemingly do! So I guess if you're not white then perhaps you're more likely to be exposed to racist family members or parents (maybe an Indian father who won't allow his daughters to marry a non-Indian etc..) and I guess if you then assume this is true of all people then you might think there are racists all over the place.

As far as objective data goes it supports the claim that the UK is not very racist at all... people disputing that on the basis of ooh it's white people saying that have a potential flaw if they're just drawing on subjective claims.

There is the issue with the whole "listen to black (or [insert minority here]) people" in that in plenty of situations you need to second guess the motive/intention of people - essentially any time you have a situation where someone is being an arse - whether it is a police officer pulling you over or a moody GP receptionist or a bouncer at a club turning your group away, if they're white and you're not then perhaps there is the potential for you to assume there was something racist happening even though those same things happen to white people.
 
Soldato
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The sort of racism that sees Indians stopped at 5/6 the rate of whites and Chinese people at 1/3 of the rate for white people in the UK, on a per capita basis.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.../policing/stop-and-search/latest#by-ethnicity

Similiar stats exist in the UK and US for arrests, incarceration and police involved deaths.

You are being lied to by some very sinister and committed people.

Those are UK wide stats, where are the majority of stop and searches committed? Could be it be in the capitol where the ethnic make up isn't really the same as the rest of the UK? Could it be that Black people are killing other Black people using knives and the Police are targeting stop and search at individuals who are actually likely to be committing those crimes? You've mentioned race but why not sex and age? Why don't Police stop little old women going shopping at the same rate as 18 year old black teenagers? Do you want Police to save lives by taking knives off the streets or do you want everyone stopped equally irrespective of their gender, age, race and religion?
 
Soldato
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Kaepernick's protest was also very specific. During the US National Anthem, he knelt rather than stand with hand on heart to show that the National Anthem was not something to be proud of. It predated George Floyd but not thousands of other killings of black men by white police officers.
 
Soldato
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Kaepernick's protest was also very specific. During the US National Anthem, he knelt rather than stand with hand on heart to show that the National Anthem was not something to be proud of. It predated George Floyd but not thousands of other killings of black men by white police officers.

White males get killed at higher rates than black males, in the US, when you control for those commiting violent offences.


In the US blacks kill whites at around 12 times the per capita rate of the reverse and blacks commit violent offences against Asians at over 250 times the rate of the reverse.

Black police officers are at least as likely if not more likely to shot black suspects.l when compared tonwhite police officers in the US.

Studies show the rate different races are stopped, arrested, incarnated and die in police involved deaths in the US is principally a factor of the underlying differences in criminality between the groups with whites being far from a low crime group in the overall stats.

All figures claims I have previously citied on these forums.


Put please do carry on....
 
Soldato
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And who is anyone else to tell people they can't boo the England players for doing so?

Who said they can't boo? They attempted to cancel the players stand against racism and it backfired. Politicians like Boris and Patel got involved and accused the players of gesture political when they were the ones doing that and it backfired. The players won this one and good on them for not backing down to idiots.

The problem with bending the knee is that it's essentially a slap in the face for all those people who aren't black but have wrongly suffered at the hands of the police. If a white person is wrongly killed by police then there's usually no movement to fight/protest for them, but if it's a black person it automatically becomes a race issue.

I haven't seen the stats but one would assume non-white and non-black people suffer the same racism under such a racist police force..?

Racism is just one issue under the woke thing, even people like Richard Dawkins seem get cancelled...

How is it a slap in the face to white people? Does the BLM stand for Only Black Lives Matter? No it doesn't. And anyway the players aren't kneeling for that. They are doing it to raise awareness of racism and take a stand against it. Its just an extension of Kick it Out. Its got huge attention so its clearly raised awareness.
 
Soldato
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He was and is a mediocre American football player, well past his prime, who has successfully grifted his way to continued sponsorship based on protesting a lie. He may or may not be a Marxist.

So that will be a no then, he's not a Marxist.

And neither are the 99.9% of people who supported a stand against racism.



It's vacous nonsence.

Kneeling was popularised by the death of a career criminal who died after his arrest when there is no evidence provided of racial animus on behalf of the cops.

Kneeling is tained by the Marxist BLM organisation in a similiar fashion to the Roman salute being tainted by fascism.

Its irrelevant why it started. Things evolve. The players have made it crystal clear in several statements.

So now kneeling is being compared to a fascist salute :cry: Get a grip.
 
Caporegime
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Who said they can't boo? They attempted to cancel the players stand against racism and it backfired. Politicians like Boris and Patel got involved and accused the players of gesture political when they were the ones doing that and it backfired. The players won this one and good on them for not backing down to idiots.

Big leap from expressing their dissatisfaction towards something and 'attempted to cancel'. Many people have said they're racist etc. for doing it and shouldn't be allowed. In fact, you're calling them idiots right now. Prime example of not respecting their choice to express dissatisfaction.
 
Caporegime
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Whatever people do to protest the racists try to repress it by claiming its political or Marxist or some other equally spurious reason to carry on their war on decency. Sad.

That's not true football has had the KickItOut campaign for years and nobody ever had problem with it, the problem is kneeling is inextricably linked to an overtly Marxist organisation that has over the last year incited riots and the tearing down of historic monuments and created more racial division/tensions during the short time it has been imported into the UK than I can ever remember.

Those who continue to promote/support BLM when they should by now know that it's anything but unifying but rather extremely divisive are the ones **** stirring. They can claim it's only about racism until they're blue in the face but not everyone is fooled when someone keeps holding up an apple and maintaining that it's an orange.
 
Don
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That's not true football has had the KickItOut campaign for years and nobody ever had problem with it, the problem is kneeling is inextricably linked to an overtly Marxist organisation that has over the last year incited riots and the tearing down of historic monuments and created more racial division/tensions during the short time it has been imported into the UK than I can ever remember.

Those who continue to promote/support BLM when they should by now know that it's anything but unifying but rather extremely divisive are the ones **** stirring. They can claim it's only about racism until they're blue in the face but not everyone is fooled when someone keeps holding up an apple and maintaining that it's an orange.
Aye. this was entirely a creation of the FA/EPL - they dropped Kick it Out quicker than somebody getting cancelled for saying the wrong thing.

They then had the cheek to say they had never promoted BLM, when there was a massive backlash.
 
Caporegime
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Whatever people do to protest the racists try to repress it by claiming its political or Marxist or some other equally spurious reason to carry on their war on decency. Sad.

LOL, sure they do... there are loads of incidents of this happening in football before BLM, you just forget to cite them of course... definitely not related to BLM being quite clearly political and lead by Marxists.
 
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