Woolwich serious incident

[cm1179]

fao trixibug. your thread got closed and i didn't want to leave it with my innapropriate pic comment so here's my reply.

here's what will happen; few EDL riots, lots of people who can''t form an opinion for themselves will jump on the bandwagon for a few weeks but then (thankfully) lose interest. terrorism has happened before and knee-jerk reaction follows.

of course, what happened beggars belief but the more this is publicised (i'm seeing pics and vids everywjhere, including a pic of a soldier who is apparently the victim but is, infact another soldier killed in 2011 (bet that makes the families of both involved feel great)) the more chances of a repeat attack.

it needs reporting, of course it does. but all people can really do is rant on fb, twitter etc and this is exactly the start the people want.

 

[spoffle]

Islam

Tell me more about how you understand the actions of cultures you have no involvement in.

 

[manic111]

I'm not religious and therefore have no idea if this is true:

1238:
Jahan Mahmood, a community leader from Birmingham, tells the BBC the attackers are "two isolated individuals who appear to be brainwashed and indoctrinated". He says: "One of them appeared to quote from the Bible. An extreme jihadist would not quote from the Bible. We are sickened by these types of events and we are deeply disturbed by misguided interpretations of the faith."

Any idea?

 

[The Running Man]

And we, as a nation, have devoted ourselves to freedom and democracy since the start of WWI. If you want to be patriotic, defend freedom.

With freedom comes responsibility. If the only way that you can protect my freedom and that of the English population is to crack down on a foreign invasion then this is what must be done.

In Islam there is no freedom. There cannot be and will never be hence why I have stated on numerous occasions that Islam is incompatible with the west. It just is.

 

[RDM]

The chap who committed this heinous crime appears to be British, or at least raised in Britain.

This has been mentioned a few times but from the statements from one of the attackers they certainly didn't self identify as British.

 

[Gilly]

Islam

Would you have them follow our doctrines? Our religions? Our societal pastimes and approaches to life?

At the expense of their own?

 

[manic111]

With freedom comes responsibility. If the only way that you can protect my freedom and that of the English population is to crack down on a foreign invasion then this is what must be done.

In Islam there is no freedom. There cannot be and will never be hence why I have stated on numerous occasions that Islam is incompatible with the west. It just is.

You're a student of Islam, then? Or is your only contact with it through the extremists we see on the news?

 

[B&W]

You're a student of Islam, then? Or is your only contact with it through the extremists we see on the news?

he's a Google shaykh going from his past posts.

 

[spoffle]

With freedom comes responsibility. If the only way that you can protect my freedom and that of the English population is to crack down on a foreign invasion then this is what must be done.

In Islam there is no freedom. There cannot be and will never be hence why I have stated on numerous occasions that Islam is incompatible with the west. It just is.

You mention foreigners, why? The attacker in the videos is British.

Tell me more about how tightening up foreign policy would have done anything to change what happened yesterday.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Would you have them follow our doctrines? Our religions? Our societal pastimes and approaches to life?

At the expense of their own?

You would be expected to do the same if you moved there. Why should here be any different? why do we have to abide by double standards?

Same problem is happening in Sweden right now. To pretend it's going to somehow get better or not continue to get worse is wishful thinking. Why is it Hindus live here? no problem... Sikhs? no problem, Buddhists no problem, they live amongst British values no problem. Islam extremists come over and preach how ****** England is, well here is a RADICAL idea? go back to where you came from.

People who cry out racism are morons, it's not about skin colour.

 

[spoffle]

This has been mentioned a few times but from the statements from one of the attackers they certainly didn't self identify as British.

I'm Somalian! (I'm not) does that make me not British because I claim I'm not?

Maybe if I claim to be a Marsian, I can be considered an Alien?

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Oh come on, who really gives a ****. The idea that this country is made up by one sort of person is utter crap. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with race or religion, we are a multicultural country and I hope we retain that banner forever.

I don't see what the EDL has to do with patriotism as it represents very little about being British, except this apparently prevalent idiocy and blindness to facts.

We are not a multi-cultural society. That shipped has failed and sailed.

We are a multi-national country. It's about time people understood that and learned to accept it.

 

[spoffle]

You would be expected to do the same if you moved there. Why should here be any different? why do we have to abide by double standards?

Same problem is happening in Sweden right now. To pretend it's going to somehow get better or not continue to get worse is wishful thinking. Why is it Hindus live here? no problem... Sikhs? no problem, Buddhists no problem, they live amongst British values no problem.

People who cry out racism are morons, it's not about skin colour.

They're not double standards. No one wants to move out to those countries because of the oppression.

So what they do in those countries is completely irrelevant. Some people literally aren't happy unless the darkies change their names to Steven and Peter and make sure that they are in no way able to be culturally identified or it's whinges of "not integrating".

Pure British culture and heritage is very strongly based on multiculturalism, and Britain wouldn't be the way it is currently (for the worse) without it.

 

[Gilly]

You would be expected to do the same if you moved there. Why should here be any different? why do we have to abide by double standards?

If I moved where?

Where are the double standards? I'm concerned about freedom of the people in other countries and their right to not be oppressed, but I'm (rather selfishly but logically I would think most would agree) more interested in the freedoms of those in my own country.

Our grandparents fought for freedom from oppression. You are suggesting that we oppress those that come here.

Don't try to sully the memories of our great nation for your own ill-conceived ideals.

BTW stating that people coming to our country should follow our culture isn't multiculturalism. It's the complete opposite and you are the oppressor.

Same problem is happening in Sweden right now. To pretend it's going to somehow get better or not continue to get worse is wishful thinking. Why is it Hindus live here? no problem... Sikhs? no problem, Buddhists no problem, they live amongst British values no problem. Islam extremists come over and preach how ****** England is, well here is a RADICAL idea? go back to where you came from.

What problem, exactly?

People who cry out racism are morons, it's not about skin colour.

What isn't about skin colour? When EDL/BNP/NF, etc are being racist, to tell them so we are morons?

Grow up.

 

[spoffle]

We are not a multi-cultural society.

Yes, we are.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

If I moved where?

Pakistan for example.

Think they would tolerate a bunch of Brits coming over living in isolated societies preaching Christianity and spreading anti Islam/Pakistani messages?

Really?

 

[The Running Man]

But we fought the Nazis we didn't afford them freedom. Because they would have infringed upon our freedom.

During which time we had to suspend the freedom of our own country via conscription, blackouts, curfews, rations etc.

 

[Gilly]

Pakistan for example.

Think they would tolerate a bunch of Brits coming over living in isolated societies preaching Christianity and spreading anti Islam messages?

Really?

No.

The reasons for that are numerous, and it has nothing to do with what happens here.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

What isn't about skin colour? When EDL/BNP/NF, etc are being racist, to tell them so we are morons?

Grow up.

I should grow up?

Go read the Facebook EDL page, I've just seen a bunch of different black faces posting on there. I didn't see any racism directed towards them.

 

[Xordium]

Very very different. Being a part of a religion isn't the same as being part of an organisation such as the NHS or the military.

Choosing to focus on people of the same religious beliefs is very arbitrary, the onus is on PEOPLE to call out others for these sort of actions, which has been done.

Religious folk aren't responsible for the actions of others just because they're part of the same religion.

Same way white folk aren't responsible for the actions of white folk, and so on.

Going backwards easier on the phone.

1) You don't chose to become white you chose to believe. Therefore, you associate yourself through choice. However, in South Africa an awful lot of white folk in South Africa saw it as their responsibility and instigated change.

2) No they are not responsible for their actions but they are responsible for how their religion is perceived. And if you can find the time to highlight inhumane treatment made against people of your religion in the Middle East you can find the time to ensure that your religion is being taught correctly. In fact it is actually that religions holy book as a responsibility to ensure the message is not distorted.

3) Yes it is arbitary but if Muslims want to demonstrate their message then they need to ensure their message is consistent with what they claim it is.

4) Of course they aren't the same there are no parallels but the principle is the same. For the record the actions I spoke against were committed by Allied troops - that was not part of my organisational role - however I knew that actions taken by people who would to all intent and purposes be seen as belonging to the same organisation as me meant that I had to challenge as the implications and consequences.