yet another messi thread

NokkonWud · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:16

Visionary said:
How does Messi being a cheat push him down your rankings? They should be decided on how good the player is.

Rooney doesn't do everything else better. Regardless of whether Rooney is top scorer at Man U, he isnt as prolific as Messi.

Rooney is both footed, sacrifices himself for the team, defends, plays massively out of position and has real fight in him.

Messi can dribble better.
Messi isn't weak in the sense that players like Pennant etc.. are weak on the ball, but he's hardly a bloody powerhouse. Rooney has as much strength on the ball as any other player you can think of in the world.

How you can say Cheating doesn't affect whether you are a good footballer or not is ******** as well. The best don't need to cheat week in week out. I lost a lot of respect for Messi when he handballed in the penultimate game of the season, it was a disgrace.

BaZ87 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:17

Ripper said:
I doubt any of us see enough of Messi to say he's a better player. Chances are people only see the odd live game on Sky whenever they show Barca.

Every week then

Messi is the only player i can think of coming through in the last 3-4 years who i think could go on to be remembered as one of the all time greats, along side Maradona and Pele.

NokkonWud said:
Messi isn't weak in the sense that players like Pennant etc.. are weak on the ball, but he's hardly a bloody powerhouse. Rooney has as much strength on the ball as any other player you can think of in the world.

I think they (i did too) thought you meant his ability on the ball was weak rather than his physical strength.

NokkonWud · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:19

BaZ87 said:
I think they (i did too) thought you meant his ability on the ball was weak rather than his physical strength.

Ah right, no, in terms of ability in the ball I'd only rate Ronaldo and Kaka higher.

BaZ87 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:20

NokkonWud said:
Ah right, no, in terms of ability in the ball I'd only rate Ronaldo and Kaka higher.

I wouldn't rate any higher than Messi, in terms of technical ability. His only weakness is his physical strength etc.

red11 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:21

weringo said:
Rooney usually only plays well when Utd play well.

Wrong, and that statement shows you don't watch Man Utd. The most recent game Rooney was head and shoulders above the rest of the team was the F.A Cup Final against Chelsea where he ran straight through the best defensive team in the country twice from midfield. We haven't seen the best of Rooney yet, domestically or internationally.

NokkonWud · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:21

Linoge said:
Wrong, and that statement shows you don't watch Man Utd. The most recent game Rooney was head and shoulders above the rest of the team was the F.A Cup Final against Chelsea where he ran straight through the best defensive team in the country twice from midfield. We haven't seen the best of Rooney yet, domestically or internationally.

Or his performance against AC Milan in the first leg?

BaZ87 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:24

I don't think Rooney has progressed at Utd as much as everyone expected and on the whole he really lagged behind Ronaldo last year, where as 2 season ago most would have thought it would have been Rooney to go on to the next level.

red11 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:31

BaZ87 said:
I don't think Rooney has progressed at Utd as much as everyone expected and on the whole he really lagged behind Ronaldo last year, where as 2 season ago most would have thought it would have been Rooney to go on to the next level.

I don't think he's found his place in the team, there is no real concrete partnership for him up front, he's continually moved to midfield in games to make up the numbers. I agree he hasn't really developed much, and that's why I think there is a lot more to see from him in the future. He's a very balanced player overall, Messi just strikes me as an incredibly lazy player who waits for the ball in midfield and then keeps it as much as he can. There's no doubting his ability, he's certainly a very special player.

I try to stay out of making comparisons, but I'd like to see Rooney play a season in Spain with Barcelona in order to properly compare them both and their impact to the team.

BaZ87 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:40

Linoge said:
I don't think he's found his place in the team, there is no real concrete partnership for him up front, he's continually moved to midfield in games to make up the numbers. I agree he hasn't really developed much, and that's why I think there is a lot more to see from him in the future. He's a very balanced player overall, Messi just strikes me as an incredibly lazy player who waits for the ball in midfield and then keeps it as much as he can. There's no doubting his ability, he's certainly a very special player.

I try to stay out of making comparisons, but I'd like to see Rooney play a season in Spain with Barcelona in order to properly compare them both and their impact to the team.

Messi is undoubtedly lazy; in the Liverpool games last year, both he and Ronny literally waited on the half way line every time we were on the attack..

The one thing about Rooney is that he has both the physical and technical sides to his game to be able to play in most leagues, where as i think Messi would struggle physically over here.

NokkonWud · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:43

Rooney has been shifted around everywhere and it doesn't help him.
For large portions of last season Rooney was moved onto the left wing purely to accomodate Giggs into the team (so he could play where Rooney should be). Then, when he was played through the center he was on his own without any partnership.

When we started the season Rooney was on fire, he was playing alongside another striker as part of a central 2. It was only when he was moved out of this that he struggled.

Andybtsn · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:49

NokkonWud said:
Rooney is both footed, sacrifices himself for the team, defends, plays massively out of position and has real fight in him.

Messi can dribble better.
Messi isn't weak in the sense that players like Pennant etc.. are weak on the ball, but he's hardly a bloody powerhouse. Rooney has as much strength on the ball as any other player you can think of in the world.

How you can say Cheating doesn't affect whether you are a good footballer or not is ******** as well. The best don't need to cheat week in week out. I lost a lot of respect for Messi when he handballed in the penultimate game of the season, it was a disgrace.

To be fair, you've put the biggest cheater at No.1. Rooney is a player I wouldn't call both footed neither.

red11 · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:53

Andybtsn said:
To be fair, you've put the biggest cheater at No.1. Rooney is a player I wouldn't call both footed neither.

When exactly will Ronaldo not be considered a cheat? Or is that him labelled for the rest of his playing career at the the tender age of 22?

Andybtsn · 14 Jul 2007 at 17:59

Linoge said:
When exactly will Ronaldo not be considered a cheat? Or is that him labelled for the rest of his playing career at the the tender age of 22?

Its the same scenario for Messi at his age then isn't it? People have the same opinion on Gerrard, Henry etc etc.

I feel its a bit hypocritical to have Ronaldo in 1st place but Messi lower because he cheats? Something just isn't right there I'm afraid...

Visionary · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:19

Andybtsn said:
Its the same scenario for Messi at his age then isn't it? People have the same opinion on Gerrard, Henry etc etc.

I feel its a bit hypocritical to have Ronaldo in 1st place but Messi lower because he cheats? Something just isn't right there I'm afraid...

Exactly lol. Messi is only 20 and has already been branded a cheat.

weringo · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:24

Linoge said:
Wrong, and that statement shows you don't watch Man Utd. The most recent game Rooney was head and shoulders above the rest of the team was the F.A Cup Final against Chelsea where he ran straight through the best defensive team in the country twice from midfield. We haven't seen the best of Rooney yet, domestically or internationally.

He didn't exactly win Utd the game in the FA cup final did he? No doubt he played well against Milan in the first leg though Ill give you that.

weringo · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:25

Visionary said:
Exactly lol. Messi is only 20 and has already been branded a cheat.

Well he quite clearly is, no one can deny that. Still a very good player though.

Tom84 · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:35

weringo said:
Messi can win you games single handedly when the team is playing poorly, Rooney usually only plays well when Utd play well.

I thought I'd heard everything but I hadn't until just then. That is the single most stupid thing I've ever read on this forum.

Visionary said:
Rooney doesn't do everything else better.

Messi can score 30 yard volleys then can he?

weringo · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:47

Tom84 said:
Messi can score 30 yard volleys then can he?

Matthew Taylor can score 40 yard volleys, does that make him a better player than Messi or Rooney? NO.

Messi has better close control, hes a better finisher, hes faster, a more accurate passer and he's more likely to produce something from nothing than Rooney.

Ripper · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:49

weringo said:
Matthew Taylor can score 40 yard volleys, does that make him a better player than Messi or Rooney? NO.

Messi has better close control, hes a better finisher, hes faster, a more accurate passer and he's more likely to produce something from nothing than Rooney.

Why are people suddenly experts on Messi, do you watch him day in day out?

Andybtsn · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:53

Ripper said:
Why are people suddenly experts on Messi, do you watch him day in day out?

If you have Sky theres no reason why you shouldn't see as much of La Liga as you do Premiership.