Your bad driving encounters

theone8181 · Wednesday at 07:29

Rroff said:
It is an area not very well covered by the highway code - something which needs an update really. Overtaking on the left should generally be discouraged due to the safety side of it but when someone is doing significantly under a reasonable speed for the limit and conditions then it isn't unreasonable to pass them on the left with caution.

Personally I'd say if you are doing 70MPH on a NSL dual-carriageway or motorway in lane 1 and someone is doing like low 60s in lane 2 or 3 technically you are still keeping up with traffic even if there is nothing in front of you. And I'd argue going back to lane 1 if it is clear isn't to overtake it is simply resuming your journey after passing other traffic.

One that drives me up the wall a bit at multi-lane traffic lights when you get someone who goes out in lane 2 who never has any intention of getting going then ends up sitting out there stranded doing a fair bit below the limit and you have to be a bit cautious of passing them on the left in case they move over on you

I thought it's legal as you're passing on the left, and them hogging the middle of right lane is illegal these days.

Ryan-3 · Wednesday at 07:33

jpaul said:
how much higher is related accident rate in the USA where you can use any lane .. and why haven't they revoked it there if it were a genuine safety issue.
just as many less maneuverable hgv's/semis on their interstates, but perhaps fewer near cities at rush hour.

There's a number of states that have the same rules as us with keeping to the right for the slow lane unless turning/overtaking. Although they also follow it about as strictly as we do.

tom_e · Wednesday at 07:53

theone8181 said:
I thought it's legal as you're passing on the left, and them hogging the middle of right lane is illegal these days.

undertaking hasn't been illegal for a long time, as Roff says overtaking on the left is generally not best practise because you might wake up the person asleep in the wrong lane and they'll drive into you but as long as you're not hopping between lanes and nailing it to weave through traffic then you're not committing an offense AFAIK.

Uther · Wednesday at 07:58

Undertaking idiots dawdling in the middle lane of a motorway is probably safer than swooping out to lane 3 then back to lane one again to overtake them.
I used to do that in the vague hope it would wake them up and they'd move over but nope.

Hussman · Wednesday at 10:00

Uther said:
Undertaking idiots dawdling in the middle lane of a motorway is probably safer than swooping out to lane 3 then back to lane one again to overtake them.
I used to do that in the vague hope it would wake them up and they'd move over but nope.

Same here...

Seems safer to me to stay in your lane rather than trying to cross over 2 lanes to get to the outside lane, only to cut back across to the inside lane again.

Perhaps it's my age, but I really feel the standard of driving these days is dire.

Brun · Wednesday at 10:42

tom_e said:
undertaking hasn't been illegal for a long time

What's your evidence for this?

tom_e · Wednesday at 10:47

Brun said:
What's your evidence for this?

Can I overtake on the left (undertake)? | West Yorkshire Police

www.westyorkshire.police.uk

Siliconslave · Wednesday at 10:50

tom_e said:
Can I overtake on the left (undertake)? | West Yorkshire Police

www.westyorkshire.police.uk

However, whilst there is no specific offence of overtaking on the left, if a driver undertook another vehicle, other than in the circumstances described above [slow moving traffic] e.g. in the case of someone hogging lane 2 on a motorway, they may be prosecuted for careless driving.

Hussman · Wednesday at 11:48

So, tom_e is right then.

Undertaking is not specifically an offence...

Brun · Wednesday at 11:56

Hussman said:
So, tom_e is right then.

Undertaking is not specifically an offence...

Absence of a specific offence doesn't mean something isn't illegal, which is what he claimed initially. Good luck trying that defence in court.

Shadowness · Wednesday at 12:02

I'd lose count of the amount of middle lane drivers on the M4 every time I come back from Heathrow. And even worse in the parts where it's 4 lanes, so there are double middle lane hoggers (lanes 2 and 3).

Hussman · Wednesday at 12:28

It would be just my luck that I got prosecuted for something which isn't a specific offence whilst the plum who hogs the middle lane (thus committing a specific offence) wouldn't be.

Brun · Wednesday at 12:35

What's the specific offence that prohibits driving in the middle lane then? The highway code just says you should use the left lane except when overtaking or turning right.

I suspect there isn't one, and it would also come under 'careless driving'.

Maccy · Wednesday at 12:35

Brun said:
Absence of a specific offence doesn't mean something isn't illegal, which is what he claimed initially. Good luck trying that defence in court.

I'd be amazed if someone was taken to court for undertaking.

Hussman · Wednesday at 12:37

Brun said:
What's the specific offence that prohibits driving in the middle lane then? The highway code just says you should use the left lane except when overtaking or turning right.

I suspect there isn't one, and it would also come under 'careless driving'.

My understanding is that it's deemed to be "careless driving"

Jokester · Wednesday at 12:39

Hussman said:
My understanding is that it's deemed to be "careless driving"

Undertaking in itself wouldn’t be considered careless. I think the guidance that was updated a year or two ago was that as long as you weren’t swerving about between lanes it’s fine. I think the main thing would be was your speed appropriate and were you causing other drivers to swerve or brake in response to it.

Brun · Wednesday at 12:40

Maccy said:
I'd be amazed if someone was taken to court for undertaking.

They would be if they were given a fixed penalty for careless driving and decided to contest it.

Hussman · Wednesday at 12:41

Jokester said:
Undertaking in itself wouldn’t be considered careless. I think the guidance that was updated a year or two ago was that as long as you weren’t swerving about between lanes it’s fine. I think the main thing would be was your speed appropriate and were you causing other drivers to swerve or brake in response to it.

That's what I thought, which is why I occasionally do it. But it's got me thinking now. As per my previous response. It would be ME that got done, that would really be my luck.

Maccy · Wednesday at 12:45

Brun said:
They would be if they were given a fixed penalty for careless driving and decided to contest it.

As above, a single undertake is never going to incur a fixed penalty for careless driving.
Regularly swerving/weaving around traffic in a dangerous manor, perhaps so.

Resident · Wednesday at 12:59

As far as most cops are concerned an undertake is moving left from the lane you're in, passing a vehicle and then immediately returning to your original lane.

If you're already in lane 1 and remain in lane 1 for some time after passing a lane hogger in lane 2 then you're 'passing on the left'. This assumes you're travelling at or under the speed limit and the L2 hogger is travelling slower than you.

Cops in this situation will more likely to be interested in the L2 hogger. (well you'd think)