Your bad driving encounters

[Greebo]

Incident yesterday which I may have to be a witness for.

I'm Car A turning right and I always tend to let cars out because I know the problems we have here.
Bus C also decides to let Car B out so B drives forward.
Car E also stops to let B out.
Car B comes out and at that moment Scooter D is overtaking and smashes into Car B.
When I say smash he brakes very hard, bumps B quite lightly and falls over causing damage to his Mod mirrors etc.
Scooter D is going mad so me and Car E along with the bus driver shouting out of the window, are having a go at the scooter rider for overtaking where he shouldn't.
He wouldn't have it and calls the Police leaving us all stranded for an hour.
All the Police did was breathalyse Scooter D and Car B but didn't say who was at fault and left saying sort it out with your insurance.
Car A, Car E and Bus C all gave our details to Car B as witnesses but refused Scooter D because in our opinion he should have stayed behind the bus and should have not overtook on the white crossed lines.

Anway OCUK what do you reckon the verdict will be?

and how many points for my cut & paste picture?

Also the Scooter had to get by this crossing somehow -

Sadly I reckon that will end up a 50/50. A similar thing happened to one of our van drivers earlier this year at work although in that case it was a car overtaking. Other traffic flashed and let him out of the junction, the overtaking car hit him. Despite her going over the white chevrons/hatched area to overtake, the police charged our driver for driving without due car and attention along with the other driver so insurance ended up 50/50. Felt sorry for our driver, what do you do when traffic stop to let you pull out?

The police said since our driver was pulling out of a junction into a main road, the burden was still on him to ensure his path was clear, even from a person doing an illegal overtaking maneuver. The thing is he never had a chance to see the overtaking car as the bus blocked his view.

 

[tonys]

It seems that a lot of the time the police don't want to take the illegal aspects into consideration, probably too much paperwork for them.

 

[Rroff]

The police said since our driver was pulling out of a junction into a main road, the burden was still on him to ensure his path was clear, even from a person doing an illegal overtaking maneuver. The thing is he never had a chance to see the overtaking car as the bus blocked his view.

Guidance at work would be to not pull out, though that makes for an awkward situation, until the traffic clears - also recommended not to wave other traffic to go instead that might have stopped for you in case they act on it without checking, etc.

Had a related one couple of days ago - going up a hill approaching a cyclist and they slowed to the side and waved me to pass because they could see over the crest but as I couldn't see the road ahead I couldn't just take their word for it that it was clear, much to their obvious annoyance as I waited until I had a clear view to pass.

 

[ezekial]

Incident yesterday which I may have to be a witness for.

I'm Car A turning right and I always tend to let cars out because I know the problems we have here.
Bus C also decides to let Car B out so B drives forward.
Car E also stops to let B out.
Car B comes out and at that moment Scooter D is overtaking and smashes into Car B.
When I say smash he brakes very hard, bumps B quite lightly and falls over causing damage to his Mod mirrors etc.
Scooter D is going mad so me and Car E along with the bus driver shouting out of the window, are having a go at the scooter rider for overtaking where he shouldn't.
He wouldn't have it and calls the Police leaving us all stranded for an hour.
All the Police did was breathalyse Scooter D and Car B but didn't say who was at fault and left saying sort it out with your insurance.
Car A, Car E and Bus C all gave our details to Car B as witnesses but refused Scooter D because in our opinion he should have stayed behind the bus and should have not overtook on the white crossed lines.

Anway OCUK what do you reckon the verdict will be?

and how many points for my cut & paste picture?

Also the Scooter had to get by this crossing somehow -

yeah I think itll also be 50/50 but it is an extremely frustrating situation. Scooter should have been aware of what was clearly happening

 

[SexyGreyFox]

It seems that a lot of the time the police don't want to take the illegal aspects into consideration, probably too much paperwork for them.

All the Police were bothered about was
1) Anybody hurt?
2) Anybody drunk?

No, bye bye

 

[Greebo]

All the Police were bothered about was
1) Anybody hurt?
2) Anybody drunk?

No, bye bye

A bit unfair. In our case at work both drivers are been prosecuted for driving without due car and attention.

 

[Rroff]

The number of people who'll do or want to do 25-50% above the speed limit in 30s and 40s (which does affect the traffic around them and make it harder for people who are more or less abiding to the limits) yet do ~15-25% under the limit in 60s and 70s is doing my head in LOL. Just drive normally FFS.

 

[jpaul]

All the Police were bothered about was
1) Anybody hurt?
2) Anybody drunk?

being mercenary, both of the parties will have their premium put up and hopefully learn a lesson, and, that won't touch mine.

The number of people who'll do or want to do 25-50% above the speed limit in 30s and 40s (which does affect the traffic around them and make it harder for people who are more or less abiding to the limits) yet do ~15-25% under the limit in 60s and 70s is doing my head in LOL. Just drive normally FFS.

I don't see excuses for 30/40 speeding, that endangers other road users, but the 60/70 speed limits are not a target; I'd contend most of the people doing 15-25% less have valid reasons,
economy and pot-holes/poor-roads would be my defense.
Some of the german population currently look upon unlimited autobahn limits as an inalienable right, the same way the American discuss right to bear arms - an expression of their individuality as Mr Cage would say.

 

[Rroff]

I don't see excuses for 30/40 speeding, that endangers other road users, but the 60/70 speed limits are not a target; I'd contend most of the people doing 15-25% less have valid reasons,
economy and pot-holes/poor-roads would be my defense.
Some of the german population currently look upon unlimited autobahn limits as an inalienable right, the same way the American discuss right to bear arms - an expression of their individuality as Mr Cage would say.

I'd have more sympathy with that if they drove what I'd consider normally in the 30s and 40s but there is a big correlation between people who drive badly in 30s and 40s yet just meander along in any higher limits.

Personally I'm quite scornful of the economical reasons though - I do a lot of driving and a lot of that on the same roads and have tried all sorts in a variety of vehicles and speed alone rarely makes any significant odds to MPG (I really don't get some of these studies, etc. as I've never been able to replicate it in the real world) - what makes far more difference is how you drive i.e. keeping momentum up, avoiding having to hard accelerate by good reading of the road ahead, integrating well with the traffic around you, etc. etc. though personally I consider it a lot of effort to get meaningful gains from that - you really have to try to get ~10% difference in MPG.

EDIT: Although maybe that is why they are so often so close behind me in lower limits as they think they gain something from "slipstreaming"

 

[SexyGreyFox]

being mercenary, both of the parties will have their premium put up and hopefully learn a lesson, and, that won't touch mine.

There was zero damage to the car but his scooter fell over and he smashed a couple of Mod mirrors.
How we were all talking to him and refusing to give our details to him I think he knew he was in the wrong.
I'm not expecting the car drivers insurance to contact me.
My question was what do you think the verdict will be (if it goes further)?

 

[dlockers]

My question was what do you think the verdict will be (if it goes further)?

You are starting to sound like you were on the Scooter

 

[tonys]

I bet it would go in the favour of the scooter, as the car was pulling onto a road from a junction. Similar thing happened to me years ago, I pulled out from a Burger King carpark and a car that was still indicating left plowed into me. I owned up to it but said to the insurance company that the woman was still indicating left when she hit me and had said that there was a lot to do at that moment (doing her hair or makeup?) The insurance paid out to her for her car which was a write off(Fiat Panda) including emotional distress caused by the accident even though she had previous anxiety issuses I believe.

 

[jpaul]

yes it still seems incongruent that the bike can have been going too fast as he needed to pull back over to avoid op, and more likely the car pulling out assumed blind corner around bus, was safe,
and, the cars bonnet had to completely protrude around bus before driver could even see.

I do a lot of driving and a lot of that on the same roads

you do pay for your own fuel as opposed to company mileage or fuel card ? - your's is the pickup ? normally they are indicative of a tax efficiency(don't threy have lower bik if cabin/load areas have some characteristic)

 

[Rroff]

you do pay for your own fuel as opposed to company mileage or fuel card ? - your's is the pickup ? normally they are indicative of a tax efficiency(don't threy have lower bik if cabin/load areas have some characteristic)

Mixed story for the fuel side, the pickup is a personal vehicle not a company one - no BIK advantages, etc.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

You are starting to sound like you were on the Scooter

I once put a 1000 watt motor on one of my eBikes and that was too fast for two wheels so went straight back to the 250 watt

However I don't know how you got that from my posting, I'm the one with 3 other witnesses saying it's the Scooters fault, we even told the Police that.

 

[tonys]

If no one is injured they just let the insurance sort it out.

 

[FoxEye]

Sadly I reckon that will end up a 50/50. A similar thing happened to one of our van drivers earlier this year at work although in that case it was a car overtaking. Other traffic flashed and let him out of the junction, the overtaking car hit him. Despite her going over the white chevrons/hatched area to overtake, the police charged our driver for driving without due car and attention along with the other driver so insurance ended up 50/50. Felt sorry for our driver, what do you do when traffic stop to let you pull out?

The police said since our driver was pulling out of a junction into a main road, the burden was still on him to ensure his path was clear, even from a person doing an illegal overtaking maneuver. The thing is he never had a chance to see the overtaking car as the bus blocked his view.

How was the scooter performing an illegal manoeuvre? (I'm not sure if you/the police were saying that it was illegal).

Perhaps not smart, but I can't see why it would be illegal? As all the lines are broken you can legit use any lane to overtake a stationary vehicle, no? Inc hatched areas.

 

[Rroff]

How was the scooter performing an illegal manoeuvre? (I'm not sure if you/the police were saying that it was illegal).

Perhaps not smart, but I can't see why it would be illegal? As all the lines are broken you can legit use any lane to overtake a stationary vehicle, no? Inc hatched areas.

Highway code 167 and 130.

While you can use hatched areas with broken borders to overtake it should not be done driving under normal conditions and you should understand why they are there before doing so i.e. they normally are there to build protective zones indicating a hazard. Nominally you should only use them to overtake a very slow moving vehicle, etc.

EDIT: It is a do not for overtaking at junctions, not a must not - for clarity violating a must not is a criminal offence, violating a do not can be used against you in court and often leads to careless driving charges but is not an enforced violation.

 

[Greebo]

I'd have more sympathy with that if they drove what I'd consider normally in the 30s and 40s but there is a big correlation between people who drive badly in 30s and 40s yet just meander along in any higher limits.

Personally I'm quite scornful of the economical reasons though - I do a lot of driving and a lot of that on the same roads and have tried all sorts in a variety of vehicles and speed alone rarely makes any significant odds to MPG (I really don't get some of these studies, etc. as I've never been able to replicate it in the real world) - what makes far more difference is how you drive i.e. keeping momentum up, avoiding having to hard accelerate by good reading of the road ahead, integrating well with the traffic around you, etc. etc. though personally I consider it a lot of effort to get meaningful gains from that - you really have to try to get ~10% difference in MPG.

EDIT: Although maybe that is why they are so often so close behind me in lower limits as they think they gain something from "slipstreaming"

Honestly in all those years driving you get the same mpg at 70mph as you do at 55mph?????

 

[Rroff]

Honestly in all those years driving you get the same mpg at 70mph as you do at 55mph?????

It isn't that simple - but in real world traffic conditions, terrain and the types of vehicle I drive the benefits of driving a bit slower are so marginal it isn't worthwhile. My style of driving is above average for fuel efficiency as well which I suspect offsets some potential gains from simple speed changes alone - I tend to much more smoothly hold momentum, avoiding acceleration, than most. Though in the QQ the driving analysis thing complains about my acceleration LOL while my scores for cruising and braking are high.