Boeing 777 shot down

RoboCod · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:38

Edward78 said:
What was it even doing flying over a war zone!!!!

Civilian airlines often fly through places you would be surprised by. Afghanistan for example has many international flights through it.

[TW]Fox · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:42

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
But the moment the plane was downed ,the blame was already made,even before anyone made it to the crash site. So its all a moot point.

To be fair it's fairly obvious - there is only really one party it could have been. The circumstances don't point to it being anyone else. Only one group was known to be, or had any 'reason' to be operating anti air equipment in the area.

Hence how quickly the blame has been attributed.

Westyfield2 · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:43

I've just got to a computer having been offline since 1AM last night… but it doesn't look like we know anymore yet? The plane was shot down, and they're still playing the blame game.

Orionaut · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:46

Cant help but feel that if Airliners had names, this ones might well have been Lusitania (For all sorts of reasons!)

Tefal · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:48

Westyfield2 said:
I've just got to a computer having been offline since 1AM last night… but it doesn't look like we know anymore yet? The plane was shot down, and they're still playing the blame game.

your surprised? it takes us a lot longer than this to figure out what happened when on of our military units shoot another of our own military units let alone this mess.

snips86x · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:52

Westyfield2 said:
I've just got to a computer having been offline since 1AM last night… but it doesn't look like we know anymore yet? The plane was shot down, and they're still playing the blame game.

Yup!

Mike in Halesowen, UK emails: Russian President Vladimir Putin said responsibility for the crash rests with "the country in whose airspace the plane was in when it crashed". So, if a violent trespasser tries to occupy your property and in the process pulls a gun and accidentally shoots an innocent passer-by, you are responsible.

diamount · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:55

Captain Planet said:
Civilian airlines often fly through places you would be surprised by. Afghanistan for example has many international flights through it.

Yeah, I'm sure the Taliban have got that sort of capability.

Westyfield2 · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:55

Tefal said:
your surprised? it takes us a lot longer than this to figure out what happened when on of our military units shoot another of our own military units let alone this mess.

TBH I thought that with all the satellites, radar, etc, one of the big guys would have traced it by now.

Westyfield2 · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:56

Singapore Airlines SQ351 (B777) and Air India AI113 (B787) were about 25 km from MH17 when it disappeared.

A Singapore Airlines plane was flying just 15 miles away when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine ... and 55 aircraft flew over danger zone on the same day.

Airlines which used the same airspace over Donetsk as the MH17 plane on the same day include: Jet Airways; Thai Airways; Pakistan International Airlines; Qatar Airways; Etihad; Emirates; and Austrian Airlines. There was also another Malaysian Airlines flight travelling from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpur.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:58

[TW]Fox;26627151 said:
To be fair it's fairly obvious - there is only really one party it could have been. The circumstances don't point to it being anyone else. Only one group was known to be, or had any 'reason' to be operating anti air equipment in the area.

Hence how quickly the blame has been attributed.

The Ukranian military had Buk systems active in the theatre of operation or have you missed all the noise about them saying Russia was invading their airspace:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/03/russia-ukraine-air-space_n_4888979.html

The Ukranians have been stating for months Russian was going to invade them directly and have been on full military alert.

Plus again,AP posted this in early July.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...014+Photo+Dmitry+Lovetsky/10004193/story.html

Ukrainian government forces maneuver antiaircraft missile launchers Buk as they are transported north-west from Slavyansk, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 4, 2014.

The Ukranian military had Buk systems in the theatre of operations,and that was from Associated Press BTW.

This is the same Ukranian military which shot down a Russian airliner by mistake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

How about we wait for the events to be properly studied before people get the lynch mobs out.

But OFC it was quite obvious Iraq had WMDs in 2003 right??

scorza · 18 Jul 2014 at 17:58

Xordium said:
I would agree with the Chinese there are far too many consequences for people to be slinging around accusations without good cause eg Clinton. It's all well and good with this righteous indignation but from the other side it could easily be taken as war-mongering. This situation is not as simple as who fired the missile it has to be placed into the context of the ongoing crisis the treatment of the local area as a conflict zone the lack of proper risk management by the air industry etc. There also needs to be a consistent approach and resolution for all people who do such actions not sweeping it under the carpet when it's one of your allies who makes the mistake.

The problem is that if Western governments were to play the waiting game before commenting on this incident, there'd be an information vacuum that would be filled with Kremlin propaganda. We've already seen how easily the gullible are fooled by this misinformation with Georgia, Syria and Crimea, and how that can affect actions taken (or not). We all knew that the "armed gunmen" who appeared on the streets of Simferopol were Russian soldiers, but because the Kremlin constantly denied it there was uncertainty affecting the western response. I'm sorry to say we've been reduced to Kremlin tactics of getting your message in first and getting it in loud. I'd like to think that's a lot easier if you have the weight of evidence behind you if not a smoking gun.

V F · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:00

Fireskull said:
I think even without religion human kind will still find ways to hate and kill each other.

Heh, yeah. There's always two opposites in life. Look how football fans kill each other.

Eliot · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:00

it has rebels written all over this. The recorded conversation should be all that is required

scorza · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:01

diamount said:
Yeah, I'm sure the Taliban have got that sort of capability.

Well I'm sure they and other Islamic terrorist groups are trying to acquire that capability now - and with Syria (think ISIS) and North Korea known operators of that system, I'd say it's a threat the world should take seriously.

Westyfield2 · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:09

A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted in Torez Ukraine.

A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted being driven along a road in Torez in Ukraine on Thursday July 17, about two or three hours before the plane is shot down.

A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted by Ukrainian intelligence services on the back of a truck heading to Russia on Friday 18 July. It is now missing two missiles. Hmm...

ubersonic · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:11

rubberduck said:
Agreed but the tone of the tweet came across as they were having a sly dig at Malaysia Airlines, giving them a good kick while they are down. There was really no need for the "your safety is our top priority" line. The could have just said "For those of you wondering, Finnair does not fly over Ukraine" and left it at that.

In their defence, English isn't the first language in Finland, the tone was probably lost in translation (well acquired in translation).

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:16

scorza said:
The problem is that if Western governments were to play the waiting game before commenting on this incident, there'd be an information vacuum that would be filled with Kremlin propaganda. We've already seen how easily the gullible are fooled by this misinformation with Georgia, Syria and Crimea, and how that can affect actions taken (or not). We all knew that the "armed gunmen" who appeared on the streets of Simferopol were Russian soldiers, but because the Kremlin constantly denied it there was uncertainty affecting the western response. I'm sorry to say we've been reduced to Kremlin tactics of getting your message in first and getting it in loud. I'd like to think that's a lot easier if you have the weight of evidence behind you if not a smoking gun.

Russian PR is for its own people,so do you really think people will believe anything they say especially with the xenophobia we have against the commie Russkies,or the xenophobia in Russia against the west??

Plus are you that naive about our own lot,who publish enough crap PR to cover everything from the war in Iraq with mythical WMDs to covering for all the economic mismanagement which lead to our recession??

Even crap like the expenses scandal which they hid for years.

Politicians around the world only really care for themselves.

ubersonic · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:16

Westyfield2 said:
A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted in Torez Ukraine.

A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted being driven along a road in Torez in Ukraine on Thursday July 17, about two or three hours before the plane is shot down.

A BUK surface-to-air missile battery being is spotted by Ukrainian intelligence services on the back of a truck heading to Russia on Friday 18 July. It is now missing two missiles. Hmm...

To be fair, the is no way of knowing those pictures are of the same Buk, and you can only see how many missiles it has in the third pic.

NexusK · 18 Jul 2014 at 18:22

The Malaysian Minister of Defence needs to quit tweeting in leet speak when it's something so important. It makes him sound like a fool.