Caporegime
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Afghanistan - 20 years on
- Thread starter GreatAuk
- Start date
Yup a few fanatics in there - water off a ducks back for me though so I like to keep em busy and showing their true colours.
I made the same "mistake" and edited my posts LOL.
Oh come on there are 3-4 posters who are straight on the "but but Trump" at the slightest criticism of Biden whether there is anything to it or not.
Nobody goes in to the libs love in as you lot gang up on members.
Your a bunch of fanatics who DON'T LIVE IN THE US.
I swear the way some of them act it is like they think if for one moment they don't defend Biden to the hilt then Trump will somehow weasel his way back into the Whitehouse...
Man of Honour
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There seems to be a suggestion that UK Forces on the ground are directly communicating with the Taliban in a effort to try and get as many people out securely as possible; this appears to be what's causing tension between the US/UK on the ground and is probably why the Para's who are on the Ground are more freely able to go into Kabul to transport people.
If I was a US Soldier I wouldn't want to be getting trapped on a street there; they're probably more of a target than we are.
If I was a US Soldier I wouldn't want to be getting trapped on a street there; they're probably more of a target than we are.
It's already starting to look like he is the fall guy president and he's so senile he won't realise it, China will probably be allowed to take Taiwan next and the media will be too busy fawning over Biden eating ice cream or playing with his dog to criticise him.
Like you say, a large portion of the population have spent the last 5 years being made to be so polarised against Trump that they will perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves that Biden is any better, he's worse in pretty much every way and ticks all of the boxes of things they accused Trump of and yet strangely they love him.
Biden was VP for 8 years and did absolutely nothing about Afghanistan, I doubt he really wanted to leave but was forced into it by the previous administration.
Soldato
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I was incredibly glad Biden won over Trump - Trump was probably the worst elected leader of all time
Trump started this ending by forming a turd of a deal with the Taliban
However Biden is an adult and should have handled this in a way that didn't reverse everything gained in 20 years, I disagree with his going along with the withdrawal, our presence was small and low cost but was keeping the status quo
But he was always clear that he would still remove forces so I guess that's his choice (even if I think its wrong)
The Airport scenes themselves are shocking and could have been avoided with better planning, so another failure for Biden
Our forces and the civilians are only only safe in the Airport right now because the Taliban decided so - we should never be putting people in a situation where our enemy decides that!
The way he pulled out contributed heavily to the giving up of the Afghan forces and Government - too keen to get out and not care about the consequences
His speech afterwards was poor and misjudged imo
As for our leaders - Raab should be gone, inexcusable to be on holiday (after being told not to) not taking calls, not returning earlier
For Boris absolutely no political will to do anything other than shrug and order everyone home - a real statesman would have seen the USA wanting out, and pulled together allies to keep the thing going without them (as that was clearly our desire from govt / MoD) but being the sack of potato peelings that he is we would be lucky if he could draw round his hand with a crayon and not mess it up so I guess im expecting too much, or even where was the influencing Biden? one way special relationship because our PM is useless
I was pleased to see them both getting a hammering from everyone in Parliament yesterday, including some excellent speeches from Starmer, Lisa Nandy, Tom Tugendhat, Mercer, Tobias Elwood even T May, and Rory Stewart also excellent on QT last night
Its been difficult for me to watch as Afghanistan has been a focus of mine for 13 years, I've been there 5 times - I am worried about the lives of all the people we just spent making targets for 20 years, every day we stayed was 1 more day of stability and progress
Even the best case scenario where everyone that needs to gets out - means we just stripped Afghanistan of everyone who is educated and talented
Trump started this ending by forming a turd of a deal with the Taliban
However Biden is an adult and should have handled this in a way that didn't reverse everything gained in 20 years, I disagree with his going along with the withdrawal, our presence was small and low cost but was keeping the status quo
But he was always clear that he would still remove forces so I guess that's his choice (even if I think its wrong)
The Airport scenes themselves are shocking and could have been avoided with better planning, so another failure for Biden
Our forces and the civilians are only only safe in the Airport right now because the Taliban decided so - we should never be putting people in a situation where our enemy decides that!
The way he pulled out contributed heavily to the giving up of the Afghan forces and Government - too keen to get out and not care about the consequences
His speech afterwards was poor and misjudged imo
As for our leaders - Raab should be gone, inexcusable to be on holiday (after being told not to) not taking calls, not returning earlier
For Boris absolutely no political will to do anything other than shrug and order everyone home - a real statesman would have seen the USA wanting out, and pulled together allies to keep the thing going without them (as that was clearly our desire from govt / MoD) but being the sack of potato peelings that he is we would be lucky if he could draw round his hand with a crayon and not mess it up so I guess im expecting too much, or even where was the influencing Biden? one way special relationship because our PM is useless
I was pleased to see them both getting a hammering from everyone in Parliament yesterday, including some excellent speeches from Starmer, Lisa Nandy, Tom Tugendhat, Mercer, Tobias Elwood even T May, and Rory Stewart also excellent on QT last night
Its been difficult for me to watch as Afghanistan has been a focus of mine for 13 years, I've been there 5 times - I am worried about the lives of all the people we just spent making targets for 20 years, every day we stayed was 1 more day of stability and progress
Even the best case scenario where everyone that needs to gets out - means we just stripped Afghanistan of everyone who is educated and talented
You do know that Biden brock the agreement and shut down the CCR that trump put in place?
And you do know that the intelligence assessments said this was going to happen?
May I ask what state you live in?
There is lots of blame flying around against Trump and Biden but to be honest that just reeks of hypocrisy.
Both of these presidents wanted out because they are ultimately doing what their citizens are telling them to do it’s not a partisan issue there, neither is it here. While neither country has a direct democracy, they can’t just ignore the views of their citizens forever and expect to be voted in again.
For years we have been calling for our withdrawal from Afghanistan. We can’t just turn round and criticise Biden and Trump when we don’t like the inevitable outcome.
It doesn’t help that the mainstream media takes very little interest until it’s way too late and then they tend to move on just as quickly (e.g. Syria).
As soon as we stepped back from front line operations, the ANA have never been able to deal with the taliban. It’s seems to have been a decline ever since and things have just hit the inevitable critical mass before we left instead of after when they expected. The latter obviously would have helped with some blame shifting but short of staying properly in for another 20 years, the outcome is likely to have been the same either way.
Both of these presidents wanted out because they are ultimately doing what their citizens are telling them to do it’s not a partisan issue there, neither is it here. While neither country has a direct democracy, they can’t just ignore the views of their citizens forever and expect to be voted in again.
For years we have been calling for our withdrawal from Afghanistan. We can’t just turn round and criticise Biden and Trump when we don’t like the inevitable outcome.
It doesn’t help that the mainstream media takes very little interest until it’s way too late and then they tend to move on just as quickly (e.g. Syria).
As soon as we stepped back from front line operations, the ANA have never been able to deal with the taliban. It’s seems to have been a decline ever since and things have just hit the inevitable critical mass before we left instead of after when they expected. The latter obviously would have helped with some blame shifting but short of staying properly in for another 20 years, the outcome is likely to have been the same either way.
I have zero desire to be drawn into a private disagreement, but I thought
that the correct word for the citizens of Afghanistan was Afghans.
Soldato
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You are Mike Pence and I claim my £5
I don't know that because I don't get to read "intelligence assessments"
Southampton is in Hampshire
I do think we need to be asking what our military role should be going forward. We obviously aren’t capable of being the world’s policeman, nor does it seem to work.
We clearly can’t just be America’s ally and do what they please as they are more than willing to leave us up the creek.
Is it time we think about transitioning our armed forces to a humanitarian/peacekeeping force and defence rather than an overt attacking force akin to some of our European friends.
Probably worth a new thread I suppose.
We clearly can’t just be America’s ally and do what they please as they are more than willing to leave us up the creek.
Is it time we think about transitioning our armed forces to a humanitarian/peacekeeping force and defence rather than an overt attacking force akin to some of our European friends.
Probably worth a new thread I suppose.
Caporegime
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Oh god another one
To me it seams you don't read anything.
Have you taken your pills today? He just wrote an entire bit criticising Biden and yet he's "another one"?
So basically, unless people live in America we shouldn't comment on their politics? That rules out pretty much everyone in this thread other than you then?
Soldato
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- 13,049
What happens in the US makes a difference to us, the whole Afghan evacuation brings this home massively. I never agreed with Trump fully withdrawing but that was then, now I massively disagree with how Biden is running shop, it is a catastrophe, and however many loopholes people what to bury their head in the sand regarding it, this is the current US administration failure.
My opinion is there would have been no issue leaving the force NATO had out there recently.. for many years to come. Influence, aiding the locals etc. Now unless we are secretly sending shed loads of cash to our new Taliban leaders, then we have no influence or can't help in the region at all.
So yes, Biden is a plonker, and tbh some of the things he has said in the last 48hrs have been borderline insanity, no wonder people genuinely believe he isn't all there. If there is a plan behind the scenes to make him the fall guy then they are doing a wonderful job because he seems totally clueless, bonkers and lacks any human emotion for what is going on.
My opinion is there would have been no issue leaving the force NATO had out there recently.. for many years to come. Influence, aiding the locals etc. Now unless we are secretly sending shed loads of cash to our new Taliban leaders, then we have no influence or can't help in the region at all.
So yes, Biden is a plonker, and tbh some of the things he has said in the last 48hrs have been borderline insanity, no wonder people genuinely believe he isn't all there. If there is a plan behind the scenes to make him the fall guy then they are doing a wonderful job because he seems totally clueless, bonkers and lacks any human emotion for what is going on.
Well no.
He started with "I was incredibly glad Biden won over Trump - Trump was probably the worst elected leader of all time
Trump started this ending by forming a turd of a deal with the Taliban"
Yet he missed out that biden missed the deal time(by months) and shut down the CCR so not many will escape.
You did know that.......right?
And why is he glad? does he live there NO...strange.
You shouldn't tell people in another country how they should live and do.
You and your mob do it every day and twice on a sunday.
What you're saying is that you would like the UK to not have to be a major part of a Western led military alliance that aims to ensures peace, nuclear non-proliferation, and maintains the status quo. Unfortunately we have to do that because no one else will. Isolationism doesn't work, if you sit back you end up with Russia deciding that a few of those Baltic states rightfully belong to them and there's no one who's going to step in, you have China deciding that they own more and more territory around South East Asia and then suddenly they want some Japanese Islands because of what happened in WW2, then suddenly Japan is developing nuclear weapons to defend themselves, plus the entire rest of the world does whatever the **** they want, why wouldn't Iran invade Israel with the backing of some Arab states? Why wouldn't Israel nuke Iran if they think they pose a credible threat to their existence?
Isolationism doesn't work, it didn't work in the 1930's when America tried it and it won't work now.
Soldato
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You mean like America? Constantly sticking their ore into everything, which is how they wound up in this situation.