Soldato
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10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..
- Thread starter Perfect_Chaos
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The videos I posted in my last post are from late last year and one was from this year (the 6900xt footage)..... they don't show that "much" difference between then and the first day benchmarks, again, very hard to find "like for like" with new build where an FPS overlay is used as well as a somewhat dense setting like NY, which is what Tommy was taking issue with
For what it is worth, here is another 9 month old video of a 3090 in NY with FPS overlay, turns out you can actually push the game beyond ultra:
That frame latency, clearly 3090 needs more vram
Have you got a link to the dlc? I can give it a try. Also, if "3rd party addons", doesn't this still classify as modding? Or is that content by Microsoft itself?
Either way, based on all the footage linked, be that old benchmarks or new footage/benchmarks, this point still stands:
I hate to break it to Nexus that MSFS has always been cpu limited and no GPU can help it only and yes the new MSFS is CPU limited massively and GPU limited and add any extra addons and watch it crawl because of VRAM limits too that kick in and are kicking in on just the standard build now with all the updates to the point they are trying to figure out how to reduce the vram used.
Also before Nexus tries to debunk these facts with his 10GB 3080 I will just state you are wasting your time and join any Flight sim forums and you will see the issues with flight sims from microsoft or any other company like X-plane etc... they all have hardware limits that make them all crawl.
The two things I do on my pc are work and flight sims since MS flight sims came on a single floppy disk and pcs even back then couldn't keep up with it and took like 2 or more generations of hardware updates before it even ran at acceptable frame rates and quality settings.
That's the beauty of flight sims when they come out they are pushing the hardware to the max and require many hardware updates after to make them run great and by then new versions out that kill your hardware again. They are the original Crysis games on any hardware and always have been for anyone in the know. Crysis was not even that hard to run compared to flight sims at the time that required even better hardware.
MSFS will run on any pc with a decent spec, but will never run right on full maxed out settings and addons that are heavy, well not on release anyways or even after a few updates later but by then normally as said a new version is out to crush your hardware again. The never ending upgrades for us flight simmers and that was my main reason in the past to update my hardware and always was, why you think they brought it back from the dead ? It sells high end hardware and in a time that pc hardware sales were dropping and look what happened when it came out, how all the people in the know went crazy for it and went out to get all new kit and new peripherals too, that's why there was a shortage of flight peripherals and HOTAS, pedals etc.
Soldato
Fixed.
So essentially you agree that there is no current gpu capable of a good experience on the market as of right now regardless of gpu vram for the current version of msfs with addons then?
Still not convinced on the performance demands getting higher with every new update either when looking at all the benchmarks on release day to now (unless there is a good video comparing release day version to the current version with the same area/settings to prove this?) but lets just say if that is correct.... when looking at the below then that means all those older videos performance will have degraded further since those recordings? Thus they will be running even worse with the current version as of today? Therefore the performance as shown in my 3080 video (newest build) is actually very good compared to the likes of the 6900xt since it's performance will have degraded further?
*puts on debunking hat*
So after some testing and research, seems Tommy you need to complain to Microsoft about their implementation of dx 12, assuming you are trying to use this?
Tried dx 12 on my end and it is a **** show regardless of settings, after some googling, turns out, loads of people saying the same regardless of gpu, here 2 videos from both the 3090 and 6900xt to rule out vram & brand:
3090:
6900xt:
Suppose dx12 is still in "beta" so can't complain too much.
Here is my video of the 3080 with "ultra" preset/settings in New York as I imagine this would be the most demanding area in the world for vram usage and also grunt? (ignore the average fps figure, obviously it isn't right given fps was in the 40s for most of the time....)
Sadly I couldn't find any amd footage on New york (with fps etc. overlay and a somewhat recent "build") but alas, even in areas, which wouldn't be as demanding as NY, looks to me that a 3080 is holding up pretty well but obviously not like for like scenarios so make of that what you will.... Oh and before people say "zOMG texture/asset pop in!!!!", it is also there in 3090 and 6900xt footage too
So to conclude, I don't know about anyone else but to me it looks like once again, we don't have enough grunt on any gpu to have an enjoyable experience with ultra @ 4k in this when even the 3090 and 6900xt are usually in 40s with dips in 30s.
I was going to test dlss too but for some reason, the setting isn't showing on my end, seems I'm not alone though:
DLSS option not showing up
Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it? no Brief description of the issue: no option to change AA to DLSS, despite selecting DX12, restarting sim. I have 2080S Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered: Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered: PC...forums.flightsimulator.com
Next please
I'll keep MSFS installed for now to test the next update out as can then at least compare like for like
So essentially you agree that there is no current gpu capable of a good experience on the market as of right now regardless of gpu vram for the current version of msfs with addons then?
Still not convinced on the performance demands getting higher with every new update either when looking at all the benchmarks on release day to now (unless there is a good video comparing release day version to the current version with the same area/settings to prove this?) but lets just say if that is correct.... when looking at the below then that means all those older videos performance will have degraded further since those recordings? Thus they will be running even worse with the current version as of today? Therefore the performance as shown in my 3080 video (newest build) is actually very good compared to the likes of the 6900xt since it's performance will have degraded further?
I'll keep MSFS installed for now to test the next update out as can then at least compare like for like
Also to add MSFS engine has always favoured Nvidia hardware, this new version is even using code from the old version before it, it was basically reworked from the old code when they canned it back in the 9/11 days. So basically why you will find it runs better on DX 11 than 12 is because really it was a DX 9 title before with DX 10 bolted on that didn't work very well at the time too. It's the same silly things again as before when they tried to introduce new versions of Direct X to the sim. A lot of the code is very old still on this new version and when you see these huge updates from time to time that either update the code and make it better or sadly worse and break other things, but can't blame them too much as they are working on old legacy code and trying to update it to the 2020s era . They are doing good work and still hoping they add sli/nvlink back in again as they always had in the past for it, that was the big reason people use to also have sli setups was because of flight sims and any flight sim that didn't use them both the other card would send other things to another screen or instruments that people buy for their home sim setups.
As I said it sold high end hardware and always has. Yes I also agree with you on what you said regarding performance but as a none simmer you really don't understand the full issues and limitations of it and you can't compare it like other games as MSFS is a lot more complicated than any other games available and under the hood MSFS is doing a massive amount of number crunching with the cpu too, so never forget the CPU with MSFS too and even system RAM latency and speed can effect it. It's an art to build a good balanced pc for it to get the best out of it out of the box and when it comes to 3rd party addons expect it to crawl as some of the 3rd party addons are amazing to the point they make it a slide show, but wait a few hardware generations and it becomes amazing again.
Like I said don't think of msfs or any flight sim that is a good sim like x-plane etc as a game, they are not games really and are more like real world physics calculators that try to throw out data at real time to a graphics engine to show what it calculated. Stick in real world weather and other traffic and really watch it crawl if you really know how to push it to breaking point. Simmers that have used it for decades know how to break it and if you read the forums that's what we complain about the most is certain things that never got fixed from years ago of older builds or new bugs that cause new issues. It's a different world from the gaming scene really and forget these youtubers that are game reviewers for many types of games and not really simmers as they have no idea what these sims can really do and no idea how to make them crawl or to breaking point, they are flying around as if it is sight seeing in a open world game, simmers are not doing that, they are looking for real simulation and can even spot when a device on the plane is not doing what it should be doing as if on a real plane, we are a weird bunch really
and very detail orientated and spot things that none simmers will never notice.Like I said don't bother with trying to figure out what MSFS runs on or not, just think of it as a work in progress that is never complete and runs like poop on all hardware available at time of release and for many years later till then it might run better or we may notice engine limitations kick in that no hardware update can make better, its happened before and if you run some old msfs even on the latest hardware now the engine breaks sometimes and throws out bad data and makes the sim do weird things that it never did on older hardware and no updates of course available apart from the sim modders trying to fix the issues. Most gave up when the new version came out because we all thought we would never see another MSFS because as you know MS canned it when the 9/11 disaster happened as the terrorists then used it to train on, but again they trained on it at home and at the flight schools in usa that used it as a flight training tool too then. :-/
Yes the devs are trying to optimise it again, it was pretty broken a few updates back and they are still updating it and trying to make it use a smaller vram foot print too, there is a dev channel about it :- https://www.youtube.com/c/MicrosoftFlightSimulator watch the dev topics and what they are doing they keep us all updated there and on their forums too where we scream at them to fix things or let them know they did good.
They are working on two builds too one for X box and the pc build so they are juggling between them.
Good info there @Purgatory
And agree, msfs is definitely not a standard "game", as you said, 100% a sim experience, must admit though, it's pretty nice to be able to kick back with a Xbox controller and play on a 55" 4k oled to just take in the stunning views.
And agree, msfs is definitely not a standard "game", as you said, 100% a sim experience, must admit though, it's pretty nice to be able to kick back with a Xbox controller and play on a 55" 4k oled to just take in the stunning views.
Also needs 32GB ram as a minimum this new version of MSFS to get the best out of it too. It kills system memory big time and under 32GB it stutters in time even out of the box, could be a memory leak but I don't think so and it ends up paging to your ssd/hdd that is setup with the page file.
As a simmer you will know this and also know about 3rd party addons too that can cause funky things to happen or even cause memory leaks.
Soldato
@Purgatory good educational posts for those not in the know, bonus point for echoing some of what I said.
Comparing builds is pointless.
Devs are trying to reduce vram use.
You get another bonus point as it looks like nexus absorbed it rather than dismiss it.
Comparing builds is pointless.
Devs are trying to reduce vram use.
You get another bonus point as it looks like nexus absorbed it rather than dismiss it.
@Purgatory good educational posts for those not in the know, bonus point for echoing some of what I said.
Comparing builds is pointless.
Devs are trying to reduce vram use.
You get another bonus point as it looks like nexus absorbed it rather than dismiss it.
That's what happens when the post is well articulated and backed up with some substance/evidence/well reasoned logic rather than the usual one liners we get
So you also concur that there is no gpu capable regardless of vram either for MSFS?
Just a note on the 2 points though.....
Comparing builds is not pointless as you and purgatory said the game gets more demanding with each new update, which may very well be true but based on the 2 videos above (by serious flight sim enthusiasts when looking at their channels and setups), this isn't always the case and performance has improved.
Devs probably are trying to reduce vram usage among many other areas of improving the game to gain more performance, however, as attested to by @Purgatory and all the videos of old and "new/current" versions of MSFS on the likes of 6900xt and 3090, vram is not helping here due to lack of gpu grunt, cpu bottlenecks etc.
Soldato
I didn't say that, purgatory said some of that, he was articulate, clear and concise just like you said, the rest you made up-again.
Soldato
You get another bonus point as it looks like nexus absorbed it rather than dismiss it.
Ahhh point deducted @Purgatory - oh well!
Soldato
So you also concur that there is no gpu capable regardless of vram either for MSFS?
Soldato
Wont be any need for a 40 series card then!
I didn't say that, purgatory said some of that, he was articulate, clear and concise just like you said, the rest you made up-again.
Eh......
Also to add MSFS engine has always favoured Nvidia hardware, this new version is even using code from the old version before it, it was basically reworked from the old code when they canned it back in the 9/11 days. So basically why you will find it runs better on DX 11 than 12 is because really it was a DX 9 title before with DX 10 bolted on that didn't work very well at the time too. It's the same silly things again as before when they tried to introduce new versions of Direct X to the sim. A lot of the code is very old still on this new version and when you see these huge updates from time to time that either update the code and make it better or sadly worse and break other things, but can't blame them too much as they are working on old legacy code and trying to update it to the 2020s era . They are doing good work and still hoping they add sli/nvlink back in again as they always had in the past for it, that was the big reason people use to also have sli setups was because of flight sims and any flight sim that didn't use them both the other card would send other things to another screen or instruments that people buy for their home sim setups.
As I said it sold high end hardware and always has. Yes I also agree with you on what you said regarding performance but as a none simmer you really don't understand the full issues and limitations of it and you can't compare it like other games as MSFS is a lot more complicated than any other games available and under the hood MSFS is doing a massive amount of number crunching with the cpu too, so never forget the CPU with MSFS too and even system RAM latency and speed can effect it. It's an art to build a good balanced pc for it to get the best out of it out of the box and when it comes to 3rd party addons expect it to crawl as some of the 3rd party addons are amazing to the point they make it a slide show, but wait a few hardware generations and it becomes amazing again.
Like I said don't think of msfs or any flight sim that is a good sim like x-plane etc as a game, they are not games really and are more like real world physics calculators that try to throw out data at real time to a graphics engine to show what it calculated. Stick in real world weather and other traffic and really watch it crawl if you really know how to push it to breaking point. Simmers that have used it for decades know how to break it and if you read the forums that's what we complain about the most is certain things that never got fixed from years ago of older builds or new bugs that cause new issues. It's a different world from the gaming scene really and forget these youtubers that are game reviewers for many types of games and not really simmers as they have no idea what these sims can really do and no idea how to make them crawl or to breaking point, they are flying around as if it is sight seeing in a open world game, simmers are not doing that, they are looking for real simulation and can even spot when a device on the plane is not doing what it should be doing as if on a real plane, we are a weird bunch really
Like I said don't bother with trying to figure out what MSFS runs on or not, just think of it as a work in progress that is never complete and runs like poop on all hardware available at time of release and for many years later till then it might run better or we may notice engine limitations kick in that no hardware update can make better, its happened before and if you run some old msfs even on the latest hardware now the engine breaks sometimes and throws out bad data and makes the sim do weird things that it never did on older hardware and no updates of course available apart from the sim modders trying to fix the issues. Most gave up when the new version came out because we all thought we would never see another MSFS because as you know MS canned it when the 9/11 disaster happened as the terrorists then used it to train on, but again they trained on it at home and at the flight schools in usa that used it as a flight training tool too then. :-/
That's why I'm asking you this:
I agree with you Tommy on this:
Thank you @Purgatory for confirming what we have agreed on and educating others
As for the bit about comparing builds, why are these not valid comparisons?
A statement by yourself was made of how newer builds run worse yet as per the above, it doesn't seem to always be the case....
Ah yes back to the selective quoting and taking things out of context I see, signs of a bitter loss
If you read the entire post and look at the discussion before that, a statement was made about msfs not holding up well because of vram on the 3080 (before brazo mentioned he was using additonal/extra config/tweaks, whatever you want to call it) hence the video and my statement of saying it looks to hold up well i.e. no vram issues here.
Hence my closing thoughts in your quoted post which you conveniently left out
Soldato
By the sounds of it the 4080 is going to be the same speed as your faster 3090 that's faster and you've had your feet up about the vram for the past 2 yrs!Wont be any need for a 40 series card then!
Soldato
The gimped 4080 according to videocardz looks set to have 12GB. Looks like they know this is the right amount for the 80 series cards! Draws up to 366w.
Draws up to 366w.
Soldato
Will 12gb be enough?The gimped 4080 according to videocardz looks set to have 12GB. Looks like they know this is the right amount for the 80 series cards!
YES IT'S ENOUGH!!- Status