14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Rroff]

Vast majority of 13900k and 14900k owners have no issues. The press/influencers blew it out of proportion during a content drought for clicks.

Problem is there is no real data and no engagement by Intel - one of Wendell's sources was claiming multiple HX chip failures but I've seen 2 shop who've sold large volumes of those chips say they've seen virtually no returns for CPU failure (one I recently linked to) and while I don't directly deal with them we've a relationship at work with several UK IT distributors/SIs so I'd be aware if they were seeing elevated returns.

 

[chaparral]

Vast majority of 13900k and 14900k owners have no issues. The press/influencers blew it out of proportion during a content drought for clicks.

I agree

Am thinking it is something else that is causing his PC to be unstable & crashing

 

[Tetras]

Problem is there is no real data and no engagement by Intel - one of Wendell's sources was claiming multiple HX chip failures but I've seen 2 shop who've sold large volumes of those chips say they've seen virtually no returns for CPU failure (one I recently linked two) and while I don't directly deal with them we've a relationship at work with several UK IT distributors/SIs so I'd be aware if they were seeing elevated returns.

I think it'll be a long time before we know, if we ever know. A lot of regular users just put crashing down to their PC, the memory, Windows, the graphics card, who knows (often the CPU is near the bottom of the list), so unless they are some kind of power user it'd likely not even get returned for months, if at all. Especially If the OEM do the same thing as Intel and fob people off until they get fed up and buy another PC in a year or two..

 

[KompuKare]

I think it'll be a long time before we know, if we ever know. A lot of regular users just put crashing down to their PC, the memory, Windows, the graphics card, who knows (often the CPU is near the bottom of the list), so unless they are some kind of power user it'd likely not even get returned for months, if at all. Especially If the OEM do the same thing as Intel and fob people off until they get fed up and buy another PC in a year or two..

And that MO worked for Nvidia way back during their millions of solder defects. About the only OEM who didn't fob their customers was Apple - and they haven't touched Nvidia since!

Actually there is another thing I recall about Nvidia's bumbgate: forum posters fobbing people off with what amounted to basically "a 8600GT [etc.]? That thing is far to slow to be useful now anyhow" which I found strange as I heard that more than once. Maybe Nvidia focus group neme at the time?

 

[RSR]

Intel to release another microcode update addressing Raptor Lake instability - VideoCardz.com

Intel is set to release 0x12B microcode addressing the instability Could this be the final update for Raptor Lake problems? Intel promised to provide an update on the instability issue affecting the 13th and 14th Gen Core CPU series, and this update was shared today. The company has determined...

videocardz.com

 

[Glanza]

Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Instability Root Cause Update

Following extensive investigation of the Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issue, Intel can now confirm the root cause diagnosis for the issue. This post will cover Intel’s understanding of the root cause, as well as additional mitigations and next steps for...

community.intel.com

 

[Rroff]

Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Instability Root Cause Update

Following extensive investigation of the Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issue, Intel can now confirm the root cause diagnosis for the issue. This post will cover Intel’s understanding of the root cause, as well as additional mitigations and next steps for...

community.intel.com

Hope we get some proper details, IMO this is mostly an impact on CPUs exhibiting 1 or more cores in excess of 1.5V under certain conditions rather than affecting all CPUs the same.

 

[qbazdz]

Interesting, will see how quickly the BIOS updates will start cascading out with a fix and if it actually cured the problems..

 

[pastymuncher]

The problem with this is that I am betting the vast majority of people don't update their bios at all or don't even know how to update the bios. We enthusiasts are by far in the minority of pc users, most who have mass built pc's from the likes of Dell, HP etc and have no clue as to how they work. It would be better if the update was able to be done via Windows update. At least the majority of users would be covered then.

 

[ED209]

The problem with this is that I am betting the vast majority of people don't update their bios at all or don't even know how to update the bios. We enthusiasts are by far in the minority of pc users, most who have mass built pc's from the likes of Dell, HP etc and have no clue as to how they work. It would be better if the update was able to be done via Windows update. At least the majority of users would be covered then.

Exactly, a lot of the user base will by an "off the shelf" PC turn it on and then forget about it or someone has built a PC for a friend\relative etc that again will sit there doing the same thing

 

[RSR]

The problem with this is that I am betting the vast majority of people don't update their bios at all or don't even know how to update the bios. We enthusiasts are by far in the minority of pc users, most who have mass built pc's from the likes of Dell, HP etc and have no clue as to how they work. It would be better if the update was able to be done via Windows update. At least the majority of users would be covered then.

I have seen Dell's perform UEFI / BIOS updates via Windows Update under the optional updates before.

 

[ED209]

I have seen Dell's perform UEFI / BIOS updates via Windows Update under the optional updates before.

That's good to hear and most likely the best way or possibly doing it via the Dell pre installed software to keep drivers updated

 

[RSR]

That's good to hear and most likely the best way or possibly doing it via the Dell pre installed software to keep drivers updated

Yes, there is also that option as well. I know it's called Dell Command in the workspace environment, but I can't remember if it is the same on the home user front.

 

[throwaway4372]

The problem with this is that I am betting the vast majority of people don't update their bios at all or don't even know how to update the bios. We enthusiasts are by far in the minority of pc users, most who have mass built pc's from the likes of Dell, HP etc and have no clue as to how they work. It would be better if the update was able to be done via Windows update. At least the majority of users would be covered then.

For me it's concern about what settings would mess up if I updated bios, so I leave it alone.

 

[RSR]

This KB may be helpful for Dell users: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000124211/dell-bios-updates

 

[RSR]

For me it's concern about what settings would mess up if I updated bios, so I leave it alone.

I know with Asus boards, for example, you can export your setting in a CMO file or text file. The CMO normally works between UEFI BIOS versions, I know that EVGA boards only worked with the installed version but I can't comment about MSI or GB as I don't use them often enough. In terms of prebuilds (Dell / HP), I don't know anyone who changes the default settings from experience helping out friends and family but that's not to say people don't.

In terms of SI's like OCUK, they would need to advise on the upgrade process which they may have done already but I don't know someone from OCUK would need to confirm.

 

[Silent_Scone]

This KB may be helpful for Dell users: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000124211/dell-bios-updates

Basically, this. Why? Because most system integrators will push these updates automatically. DELL will via Windows Updates. Major SI's, as you say, will likely produce their own documentation. Making a strawman for owning an enthusiast motherboard and not wanting to update your own BIOS, not a lot one can say. I'm sure there's some that feel that way, however, they should probably consult someone if that's the case.

Problem is there is no real data and no engagement by Intel - one of Wendell's sources was claiming multiple HX chip failures but I've seen 2 shop who've sold large volumes of those chips say they've seen virtually no returns for CPU failure (one I recently linked to) and while I don't directly deal with them we've a relationship at work with several UK IT distributors/SIs so I'd be aware if they were seeing elevated returns.

ASUS CS haven't seen any influx in failures on HX CPUs, either.

 

[mattyfez]

Interesting.. I have a 13th gen cpu and an Asus z790..
I've been running under volted since day one pretty much.. Mostly as it saves a bit of power and cpu temp with no real performance impact so I've kinda dodged a bullet I think...

I've been holding off updating my bios until the solutions are a bit better known and understood so might take the plunge once that's more clear.

Be interesting to see how undervolting /over clocking temps & power consumption differ.

 

[Tetras]

For me it's concern about what settings would mess up if I updated bios, so I leave it alone.

That's good to hear and most likely the best way or possibly doing it via the Dell pre installed software to keep drivers updated

The TPM/Bitlocker issues that can occur from BIOS updates are potentially concerning for OEMs, especially since I think they are being mandated by Microsoft to have these features enabled by default for all users.

I don't know if they save keys in the BIOS/firmware, but I can imagine a scenario where automatic updates would cause chaos and massive support headaches.

From what I'm aware, Windows can load microcode updates invisibly prior to the OS proper booting, so they don't need to do a full update.

 

[mattyfez]

Yeh I'm sure I've seen microcode updates pushed via windows update before.. Due so a security issue... Can't remember the details as it's going back a while... Windows 10 era.