14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

gerardfraser · 23 Oct 2023 at 17:51

Adrian1976 said:
Can anyone do me a favour who has a 14900K or KF and has one set at stock, Ie everything auto relating to the CPU and at stock PL limits of 253W, Auto SVID, Auto LLC basically everything Auto and MCE off and tell me what your Bios Voltage is reading and what your max voltage is peaking to in Hwinfo in Windows.

Also could you do a Cinebench run and check your clock speeds as it should not drop under 5.6ghz.

My 14900KF on my Z690 Gaming A fully updated all on Auto is giving me 1.49-1.51v in the bios and it is peaking at 1.53v! in Hwinfo in Windows and the P core clocks are dropping to 5.2ghz far cry from Intels specs of 5.6ghz and even the E cores are dropping to 4.3 from 4.4 max 65-70c during Cinebench at 253W.

Does anyone have a Strix Gaming A Z690 with 14th gen also?

My P core SP rating is giving me 108 but the E core is giving me 60! it's worse than my 12900K! I believe I have a defective chip or some of the worst dodgy silicon bodged together, I cannot find anyone with an E core SP of 60, They are all in the 70-80's range, I don't know what's going on with my chip but it should NOT be dropping clocks to 5.2 In Cinebench R23 and using 1.51v for light spiking light loads in Windows at stock.

Intel is shoving out any old silicon with 14th gen.

I will help you out some.Did not read all post after your post but I will guess people will be saying stuff like voltage too high,cpu too hot etc.
You do not have a defective chip.

Areas marked in blue you did not read the specifications on the intel CPU.

If you set power limit at default doing AVX benchmarks CPU clock are 5100Mhz on 14900K/KF

Auto idle voltages you have are 100% normal in BIOS for the chip unless you change something.
The 14900K/kf on auto default settings with AIO 360MM will hit 100℃ and throttle down CPU clocks on cinebench load and also can hit 370 watts on default but with your settings instant 5100Mhz cpu clock at 253w.

You may only be able to do up to P-core 5700Mhz(most likely 5500Mhz) all core and E-core 4400Mhz

What do you want to actually achieve on your CPU. To be able to run Heavy work loads EG:4D cinema or play PC games.
I think you said PC games in another post.If so take the BIOS settings I posted and use the TVB temperature offsets so you can PC game all day and if you hit a heavy workload your CPU will downclock and no one will ever know.

Also do not copy my CPU ratio offsets of 63/62/61/60 your CPU may not be able to handle that,For your SP CPU I say set 58/57/56 Core ratio P=-core and E-core 4400mhz.

Then keep it simple,use adaptive voltage or manual higher than your VF curve. SO I am guessing here your VF curve at your SP rating is probably at 5600Mhz 1.38-1.39v
5800Mhz 1.42-1.43v
So I recommend
set manual voltage at 1.45v in BIOS
set Load line calibration to 5/6
set AC/DC lines to 0.01
Set fan curve in BIOS to ramp fans higher after 40℃ to try to avoid downclocking
if you do not want to copy the tvb settings I post in the BIOS setting dump
then Intel CPUs are rated for 115℃ raise the 100℃ limit higher until you do not get downclocking on CPU

Be realistic the numbers some people spot especially on overclockers.net have freaking chillers or watercooling setups with 5 watercooling pumps and 50 fans trying to get 1℃ lower than the next guy or 1 fps more with rtx4090 running pc game benchmark 720p low settings.
Non of it is realistic at all.

What a crap wall of text lol.

Dave2150 · 23 Oct 2023 at 18:00

Jay85 said:
Last time i slugged it out was back on a 3770k , literally missed everything inbetween and went straight to a 9900k, can't see myself doing that again.

Last time I slugged it out was with the i7 920. Kept that (heavily OC'd) until the 6700k. Was an epic upgrade!

Robert896r1 · 23 Oct 2023 at 23:21

Intel APO - Intel Application Optimization - 14900K Tested - 200 FPS GAIN!!!

Hey all, here is a quick test of the new Intel i9 14900K using Intel's new Application Optimization or APO. Only 2 games have support upon release with many ...

youtu.be

mrk · 24 Oct 2023 at 05:06

The landscape has changed massively since then though!

Adrian1976 · 24 Oct 2023 at 06:34

gerardfraser said:
I will help you out some.Did not read all post after your post but I will guess people will be saying stuff like voltage too high,cpu too hot etc.
You do not have a defective chip.

Areas marked in blue you did not read the specifications on the intel CPU.

If you set power limit at default doing AVX benchmarks CPU clock are 5100Mhz on 14900K/KF

Auto idle voltages you have are 100% normal in BIOS for the chip unless you change something.
The 14900K/kf on auto default settings with AIO 360MM will hit 100℃ and throttle down CPU clocks on cinebench load and also can hit 370 watts on default but with your settings instant 5100Mhz cpu clock at 253w.

You may only be able to do up to P-core 5700Mhz(most likely 5500Mhz) all core and E-core 4400Mhz

What do you want to actually achieve on your CPU. To be able to run Heavy work loads EG:4D cinema or play PC games.
I think you said PC games in another post.If so take the BIOS settings I posted and use the TVB temperature offsets so you can PC game all day and if you hit a heavy workload your CPU will downclock and no one will ever know.

Also do not copy my CPU ratio offsets of 63/62/61/60 your CPU may not be able to handle that,For your SP CPU I say set 58/57/56 Core ratio P=-core and E-core 4400mhz.

Then keep it simple,use adaptive voltage or manual higher than your VF curve. SO I am guessing here your VF curve at your SP rating is probably at 5600Mhz 1.38-1.39v
5800Mhz 1.42-1.43v
So I recommend
set manual voltage at 1.45v in BIOS
set Load line calibration to 5/6
set AC/DC lines to 0.01
Set fan curve in BIOS to ramp fans higher after 40℃ to try to avoid downclocking
if you do not want to copy the tvb settings I post in the BIOS setting dump
then Intel CPUs are rated for 115℃ raise the 100℃ limit higher until you do not get downclocking on CPU

Be realistic the numbers some people spot especially on overclockers.net have freaking chillers or watercooling setups with 5 watercooling pumps and 50 fans trying to get 1℃ lower than the next guy or 1 fps more with rtx4090 running pc game benchmark 720p low settings.
Non of it is realistic at all.

What a crap wall of text lol.

That's a ton of useful information! Thanks mate.

Main goal was to tighten the voltages but have a little bump in gaming all core ie 5.8 maybe.

The V/F curve for 5.6 on my chip is 1.359v
5.8 is 1.393v

It is a P core SP of 108

I have come to the conclusion these chips are efficient if locked at Intels specs however mine will not boost to 6ghz single core or any core for that matter since locking the power limit so not sure what's going on there because as soon as I unlock the power limit it does then boost to 6ghz.

Thanks again.

Grim5 · 24 Oct 2023 at 08:08

Intel 14th Gen APO tested

Surprised Intel didn't spend more time talking about this

APO is more or less a game profile, kind of like graphics drivers have game profiles and this profile modifies how thread director controls the CPU cores. Intel makes profiles for games where it believes they would benefit

In the two games this guy tested he saw an up to 30% increase in framerate at 1080p with a RTX4090

Unfortunately APO is currently only available to 14th gen i7 and i9 processors but it seems to work by providing a significant performance uplift in CPU bottlenecked games

jigger · 24 Oct 2023 at 09:09

Grim5 said:
Intel 14th Gen APO tested

Surprised Intel didn't spend more time talking about this

APO is more or less a game profile, kind of like graphics drivers have game profiles and this profile modifies how thread director controls the CPU cores. Intel makes profiles for games where it believes they would benefit

In the two games this guy tested he saw an up to 30% increase in framerate at 1080p with a RTX4090

Unfortunately APO is currently only available to 14th gen i7 and i9 processors but it seems to work by providing a significant performance uplift in CPU bottlenecked games

Intel are going to talk in great detail about APO when they launch the Intel Arc parts.

gerardfraser · 24 Oct 2023 at 13:35

Adrian1976 said:
That's a ton of useful information! Thanks mate.

Main goal was to tighten the voltages but have a little bump in gaming all core ie 5.8 maybe.

The V/F curve for 5.6 on my chip is 1.359v
5.8 is 1.393v

It is a P core SP of 108

I have come to the conclusion these chips are efficient if locked at Intels specs however mine will not boost to 6ghz single core or any core for that matter since locking the power limit so not sure what's going on there because as soon as I unlock the power limit it does then boost to 6ghz.

Thanks again.

That is very nice of you to say.Sorry my information was not useful for what you wanted to achieve.I have yet to try to actually lower voltage yet on the 2x14900KF I have. Early days in overclocking the chips,I always try to keep things simple AF at first and set my PC to what I want to run.
I may just try your approach for something different,to be truthful you get the same FPS in PC Gaming at higher resolutions at 6200Mhz or 5200Mhz,the big numbers are just for ego.
I think your thinking is the best way to run the CPU.

pastymuncher · 24 Oct 2023 at 14:04

Adrian1976 said:
That's a ton of useful information! Thanks mate.

Main goal was to tighten the voltages but have a little bump in gaming all core ie 5.8 maybe.

The V/F curve for 5.6 on my chip is 1.359v
5.8 is 1.393v

It is a P core SP of 108

I have come to the conclusion these chips are efficient if locked at Intels specs however mine will not boost to 6ghz single core or any core for that matter since locking the power limit so not sure what's going on there because as soon as I unlock the power limit it does then boost to 6ghz.

Thanks again.

You don't mention it in your original post but have you updated the motherboards bios (release 2802) for the new cpu's?

Adrian1976 · 24 Oct 2023 at 14:42

gerardfraser said:
That is very nice of you to say.Sorry my information was not useful for what you wanted to achieve.I have yet to try to actually lower voltage yet on the 2x14900KF I have. Early days in overclocking the chips,I always try to keep things simple AF at first and set my PC to what I want to run.
I may just try your approach for something different,to be truthful you get the same FPS in PC Gaming at higher resolutions at 6200Mhz or 5200Mhz,the big numbers are just for ego.
I think your thinking is the best way to run the CPU.

All information is useful thank you, If it can help anyone out or vice it's all good.

Yeah I agree I setting this up to be efficient, I am still getting over 40500 in Cinebench with loadline tuned and it's only using 218w.

I am happy with that.

Out of interest what are your SP ratings for your chips?

Adrian1976 · 24 Oct 2023 at 14:44

pastymuncher said:
You don't mention it in your original post but have you updated the motherboards bios (release 2802) for the new cpu's?

My bad, Yes I have the latest 2802 bios, ME Firmware, Chipset and ME drivers on.

I even tried to reflash the same bios with a USB stick this morning but my readings are still identical.

Pcore 108
Ecore 60.

I am still yet to find anyone with an Ecore SP this low, I am not ruling out a dodgy bios just yet though.

gerardfraser · 24 Oct 2023 at 15:00

Adrian1976 said:
All information is useful thank you, If it can help anyone out or vice it's all good.

Yeah I agree I setting this up to be efficient, I am still getting over 40500 in Cinebench with loadline tuned and it's only using 218w.

I am happy with that.

Out of interest what are your SP ratings for your chips?

OK I tried all the BIOS for my Asus Rog Strix Gaming and the SP Rating is all over the place,so I trust no readings.
SP 70ratings ranged from 70-104
These are on the latest beta BIOS 1501 from what I remember,so many BIOS changes lol.

SP92

SP 104

Adrian1976 · 24 Oct 2023 at 15:12

The 104 one you have is a very good chip!

I would keep that mate because there is so much of a mixed bag out there.

gerardfraser · 24 Oct 2023 at 18:33

Adrian1976 said:
The 104 one you have is a very good chip!

I would keep that mate because there is so much of a mixed bag out there.

I have a 13700K that is better in PC Gaming than both 14900KF chips.I am hoping it is just bad BIOS,Asus are famous for that.I am not impressed at all with these 14900 chips.

Seems pointless to buy these CPU's but yet like a nut I did(posted this on release).13700KF vs 14900KF Cpuz/cinebench

CPU-z Single Thread 996.4 vs 996.8
Cin23 Single Thread 2397 vs 2438

Glanza · 24 Oct 2023 at 18:35

Grim5 said:
Intel 14th Gen APO tested

Surprised Intel didn't spend more time talking about this

APO is more or less a game profile, kind of like graphics drivers have game profiles and this profile modifies how thread director controls the CPU cores. Intel makes profiles for games where it believes they would benefit

In the two games this guy tested he saw an up to 30% increase in framerate at 1080p with a RTX4090

Unfortunately APO is currently only available to 14th gen i7 and i9 processors but it seems to work by providing a significant performance uplift in CPU bottlenecked games

Bit of a ballache to setup but done now, had to go into bios to enable dynamic tuning for them all to show up in device manager.

ade64 · 25 Oct 2023 at 00:54

seems like only the ASUS boards support apo in the latest bioses afaik, i assume other motherboard manufacturers will get round to updating their bioses eventually, installing the drivers seems a bit clunky atm. wonder if they really changed the scheduler in the 14th gen or not?

jigger · 25 Oct 2023 at 10:05

ade64 said:
seems like only the ASUS boards support apo in the latest bioses afaik, i assume other motherboard manufacturers will get round to updating their bioses eventually, installing the drivers seems a bit clunky atm. wonder if they really changed the scheduler in the 14th gen or not?

Arc GPU’s manufacturers will have APO on the Arc box definitely. APO is a graphics feature set not a CPU. I’m sure APO will work a little better* on an all Intel Core chip with Intel Arc graphics’s but the goal is for gaining an edge for Arc and Iris.

APO has been with us since before the 1300 series.

ade64 · 25 Oct 2023 at 10:33

jigger said:
Arc GPU’s manufacturers will have APO on the Arc box definitely. APO is a graphics feature set not a CPU. I’m sure APO will work a little better* on an all Intel Core chip with Intel Arc graphics’s but the goal is for gaining an edge for Arc and Iris.

APO has been with us since before the 1300 series.

apo is exclusive to 14th gen cpus afaik, the 14700 and the 14900 only.

see:- https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-a...ivers-up-to-31-higher-fps-with-core-i9-14900k

jigger · 25 Oct 2023 at 11:10

ade64 said:
apo is exclusive to 14th gen cpus afaik, the 14700 and the 14900 only.

see:- https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-a...ivers-up-to-31-higher-fps-with-core-i9-14900k

No it’s been around for ages and works on 13000 series chips and by extension 14/12000 series.

APO is a graphics suite unless Intel have changed its direction. Intel definitely need its marketing team in full swing right now, but I think we see that marketing push once Intel releases its BMG-10 stuff.

Adrian1976 · 25 Oct 2023 at 14:11

gerardfraser said:
I have a 13700K that is better in PC Gaming than both 14900KF chips.I am hoping it is just bad BIOS,Asus are famous for that.I am not impressed at all with these 14900 chips.

Seems pointless to buy these CPU's but yet like a nut I did(posted this on release).13700KF vs 14900KF Cpuz/cinebench

CPU-z Single Thread 996.4 vs 996.8
Cin23 Single Thread 2397 vs 2438

Yeah I mean effectively they're a 13900K/S in truth, I only upgraded because I was coming from a12900K but I can see your point, What's worse the amount of crap silicon out there, My Ecores are so bad they're using the same amount of voltage as the P Cores haha.

I reseated the CPU and replaced the CMOS battery this morning to see if that resolved my E core SP bit nothing changed, Exactly the same VID of 1.458v required for the P Cores and E cores, Don't get me wrong I've an Average or just above P Core on this but because the E Core voltage required is so high compared to aot out there it's increasing my overall Vcore.

Not sure whether I'm going to return this yet on the basis of it being barely stable at stock.