See, you say that but if he qualifies pole...driving through the field from 10th probably won't prove that much of a challenge.
McLaren just have to make sure Ferrari don't get a full front row, otherwise the race is lost before its started.
2008 Canadian Grand Prix - Race 7/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
- Start date
See, you say that but if he qualifies pole...driving through the field from 10th probably won't prove that much of a challenge.
McLaren just have to make sure Ferrari don't get a full front row, otherwise the race is lost before its started.
What rubbish - the Monaco accident wasnt avoidable (especially with the speed differential between the bump and the chicane) and that corner has taken many a driver unawares.
What happened with Lewis was totally avoidable if he had been paying attention. The snake was the same one that he had just left the front of and Canada is well known to have an 'useful' (read: shorter/straighter) pit lane where you exit at the second corner. It doesnt take a genius to realise where you are relative to the snake straight after a ~12 second pit...
AFAIK (ignoring 10 place drops for engines) the majority, if not all, 10 place penalties have been given after the race or significantly after the incident itself...
Just in utter disbelief that there are people here that consider an incident at 290KPH in race conditions can be seen in the same light as something in the straight, level pit lane at 80KPH...
Im pretty sure having an accident while the safety car is out would be deemed erratic and potentially dangerous...FIA Regulations - Clause 40.7 said:
Now considering Hamilton was already out of the race - how could they apply penalities a) and b)?FIA Regulations - Clause 16.3 said:
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It wont be as easy as you think.
Hamilton isnt too great when he has to come from behind. This is the part of his racing skill that he must work on. In comparison, MS was supreme when coming from behind.
And in France, I doubt he will get pole. At a guess, I would say Massa.
It doesnt really matter at what speed the incident takes place. Was it intentional or not? Was the driver showing a duty of care when racing?
The last question is the only part that could possibly exonnerate Kimi and not Hamilton. The argument would be that Hamilton was not showing any care when driving - in effect he was driving dangerously.
Strictly speaking, Alonso should also have received some form of punishment, when he ran into the back of a car at Monaco. He showed no duty of care and there was absolutely no way an overtaking move was on. However, if he was punished, then so would Ferrari have been. Hence, nothing came of it.
I still think its harsh and a shame that the FIA have to come to Ferrari's rescue, everytime it looks like they might get beat.
A further question would be:
Could the incident have been avoided?
That exonerates Kimi but not Lewis (or Rosberg) Im afraid.
However good a driver you are - losing it at 290KPH when you have just come out of a dark tunnel travelling down a gradient to a tight chicane is very difficult to deal with, compared to failing to stop on a slightly dusty piece of straight tarmac (opening to an acceleration zone) at 80KPH. He just wasnt driving with all due care and attention...
I dont think its harsh in the slightest - these guys are meant to be the best and its embarrassing to be involved in such an avoidable incident...
ps3ud0
Could the incident have been avoided?
That exonerates Kimi but not Lewis (or Rosberg) Im afraid.
However good a driver you are - losing it at 290KPH when you have just come out of a dark tunnel travelling down a gradient to a tight chicane is very difficult to deal with, compared to failing to stop on a slightly dusty piece of straight tarmac (opening to an acceleration zone) at 80KPH. He just wasnt driving with all due care and attention...
I dont think its harsh in the slightest - these guys are meant to be the best and its embarrassing to be involved in such an avoidable incident...
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Heikki
I see that Heikki pulled out yet another stonker. He finished 9th and got overtaken by Massa. He was slow all weekend, while his team leader (who did make a mistake), was setting race-winning pace.
As per usual, Heikki gives another poor performance. He really doesnt deserve to be in a McLaren. For him to win in a race, he will need the best car and all the major contenders (including the BMWs) to fall off the track. I dont know how he is doing it, but he is actually getting worse as the season progresses; one would think that as he gets used to the car, he would get faster.
I really do feel that McLaren should give Vettel a chance for their No.2 car, as Heikki just isnt capable of racing at the sharp end.
I would love to see the excuse used this time. JRS, I'm gonna love to hear your Canadian GP excuse, for Heikki.
Aaaaaaaaand there it is.
Remind me again - where did Hamilton finish the GP? Was it ahead of Heikki, or crammed into the back of Kimi courtesy of a stupid mistake in the pits?
From James Allen's post-race column:
So, the team were warning him. But the Great And Glorious Messiah™ was only mindful of the fact that his team had cost him time with a slow stop. Somehow, I'm not desperately surprised. I like the guy, but he makes it very hard to do so when he does stupid stuff like that.
The pit strategy didn't work for Heikki on raceday, but even if they'd done things differently he didn't have the all-out pace that Hamilton showed all weekend. So, no excuses from me. You got any for Hamilton ignoring radioed warnings, flashing red lights and the small matter of a pair of stationary cars?
Yes, because losing the car on a partially damp and pretty bumpy track and managing to collect some unfortunate soul is exactly the same as not spotting the red light, ignoring warnings from your team and the fact that two cars are stationary at the end of the pit lane isn't it?
Presumably if those guys hadn't been there then he might have completely missed the light anyway, so he'd have been DQ'd. Look at the speed he hit Kimi at - he certainly didn't get it slowed down to a crawl.
Oh I'd say it matters an awful lot. One was an incident at racing speed, on the open track - the other happened under Safety Car conditions in the pitlane.
You have to accept the difference between the 2 incidents - unless you are the sort of person who believes someone who has copied a CD should be treated the same as someone who has commited murder, after all, both are illegal
well i went for a points deduction penalty, but i dont think a 10 position drop is as bad. if hamillton can do aswell as yesterday pace wise, it shouldnt be to hard for him to get through the field and into a decent points position. it should also make for a semi exicing race.
It was cold brakes that caused it not the damp track. Kimi even said this...
I'm not sure what is more negligent... ignoring a red light on the pit lane exit or forgetting to warm your brakes after what was quite a long safety car period. I'd say they are both "well up there" in terms of idiocy. Conveniently though LH's incident could be spinned more easily as being entirely his fault so they came down on him like a ton of bricks.
Contrary to what many Ferrari fans say... Kimi's incident was *entirely* avoidable. He even had two choices - to DNF his own race by ending up in the wall or rear end the car in front to keep it out of the wall but in all probability be able to finish the race. And considering the amount of hassle the Canada pit lane causes almost every year it is no surprise to me that this incident with LH has happened. I don't know what they could do to improve it - maybe they need to add more pit lane exit lights so that drivers can't possibly not see them!
As I said before it would be very good if the FIA could clarify their decision making a bit more. That way people don't have to speculate and form conspiracies so much.
Kimi would have done him in the pits safety car or not, Hamilton and Kubica had great pace for the first 5 laps then it dropped off, the 5 or so laps before the SC, Kimi had started to reel them in 0.5-1 second a lap (fastest lap of anyone by him on lap 14, Hamiltons fastest was on lap 4).
Could have been a great race, but Hamilton doesnt seem to have the etiquette that some of the drivers have yet, seems that if hes not going to win the dummy comes out and to win he will drive as dirty as he possibly can.
Watching the video footage of it again on youtube, Hamiltons heading right towards Kubica until the last minute when he steers and then locks the brakes and ploughs into Kimi, coincidence
Could have been a great race, but Hamilton doesnt seem to have the etiquette that some of the drivers have yet, seems that if hes not going to win the dummy comes out and to win he will drive as dirty as he possibly can.
Watching the video footage of it again on youtube, Hamiltons heading right towards Kubica until the last minute when he steers and then locks the brakes and ploughs into Kimi, coincidence
I think Hamilton was penalised for missing the red light (which incidently he did admit to during the interview), and he wouldve missed the lights had it not been for Kubica/Raikonnen being in the way, then he would've been black flagged. Race over.
And with regard to Alonso not being penalised because Raikonnen wasnt penalised. Yea I suppose you could be right. But look at it this way.
Hamilton went into the back of Alonso in Bahrain, but wasnt penalised for it.
Racing incident. (Ok Alonso wasnt damaged, but thats not the point I guess, its all about continuity at the end of the day and thusfar the FIA has showed continuity with regards to penalties applied to the specific situations in each of the examples above).
He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy.
Yes. Am I being sarcastic or truthful? You decide.
I don't understand why people call Hamilton the Messiah, he never calls himself that so why should anyone else. It seems people say it out of spite most of the times.
Anyway it's all been wrapped up with a 10 place deduction. You lot got your wish that a British driver get's penalised, patriotism is truly dead here...
Kimi crashed in Monaco because he lot control and used Sutil as a brake. The exact same thing happened to Coulthard, only he used the wall instead of another car. Absolutely no reason why he should get a penalty.
The Lewis/Kimi/Nico accident yesterday boils down the the simple offence of both Lewis and Nico ignoring the red light. If there werent cars there they would have sailed on out the pitlane and been penalised accordingly. This should be punished, but im not sure a 10 grid penalty is the right way. I cant remember the penalty they handed out to other drivers last year?
And JEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSUUUUUUUS Guys! People make mistakes, get over it! Your acting as if Lewis is the only guy ever to ever do anything wrong ever in the whole history of motorsport. He messed up, hes been penalised, and it made for a darn right good race to watch. As much as im a Lewis fan, seeing BMW finally win and DC on the podium too was far mroe interesting than yet another Mclaren/Ferrari white wash. Everyopne makes mistakes, it makes things intersting.
The Lewis/Kimi/Nico accident yesterday boils down the the simple offence of both Lewis and Nico ignoring the red light. If there werent cars there they would have sailed on out the pitlane and been penalised accordingly. This should be punished, but im not sure a 10 grid penalty is the right way. I cant remember the penalty they handed out to other drivers last year?
And JEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSUUUUUUUS Guys! People make mistakes, get over it! Your acting as if Lewis is the only guy ever to ever do anything wrong ever in the whole history of motorsport. He messed up, hes been penalised, and it made for a darn right good race to watch. As much as im a Lewis fan, seeing BMW finally win and DC on the podium too was far mroe interesting than yet another Mclaren/Ferrari white wash. Everyopne makes mistakes, it makes things intersting.
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Vettel got it for running into Webber behind the safety car at the Chinese GP. It might have been reduced before the race but he received it none the less. Nakajima also receive the same punishment for hitting Kubica during the SC at Melbourne this year, so it's pretty standard for this type of incident.
IIRC Montoya got black flagged a few years ago when he was close to winning, for coming out the pit lane when the light was red.
Ah ok, well I suppose wether you look at it as a red light infringement or running into the back of someone when it shouldnt even be posisble the 10 grid penalty is ok.
I seriously dont understand the moaning about Kimi not getting anything at Monaco. You cant penalise someone for loosing control of their car under braking.