2008 Canadian Grand Prix - Race 7/18

[NathanE]

Whats confusing about 2 cars infront of you stopping at a red light? Id hate to be infront of you at traffic lights on a dual carrageway!

My point being was that LH saw the two in front were racing each other (in the pit lane). LH assumed they were both basically dragging it to see who would win over after exiting the pit lane. LH was too focused on that and how he would go about profiting from their tussle.

In the pit lane it is very wierd and not common to see two cars side by side fighting for position.

 

[Skeeter]

I thought as he didn't finish he could change both engine and gearbox free.

Engine yes, im not entirely clear on how the gearbox rules work however.

 

[Skeeter]

My point being was that LH saw the two in front were racing each other (in the pit lane). LH assumed they were both basically dragging it to see who would win over after exiting the pit lane. LH was too focused on that and how he would go about profiting from their tussle.

To busy to notice the big red flashing light and voice in his ear... not to mention to 2 cars you say he was interested in becomeing very big infront of him...

If you watch the onboard, he looks down at his wheel, looks up, realises whats going on, and fails to stop in time. Your making this argument about what you think, rather than fact. Fact is, he wasnt paying attention, he crashed, his fault, he got penatly. Rosberg did the exact same yet I dont see any "oh, he was distracted by the drivers drag racing out the pits to notice anything" comments.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Could it not be suggested that the only reason Kimi stayed side-by-side is that it would only make matters worse if he slowed, dropping in right where Hamilton could potentially be - consequently if he stayed side on then effectively they could all avoid getting tangled up once out of the pits.

 

[FrankJH]

McLaren/Martin Whitmarsh isn't too happy with the penalty it seems.

Yes there is a difference between the Monaco incident and this. But really it isn't all that much. One happened at 180mph or so and another happened at the exit of the pit lane under SC conditions on a track that has a history of having problems like this.

The net result between Monaco and this is the same. A car or multiple cars has been eliminated from the race. LH could not continue. His race was over. Kimi DID continue in Monaco and it was only by the skin of his teeth that he didn't score a point.

10 places IMO is a bit harsh considering Kimi didn't so much as get a slap on the wrist.

As above, if the FIA didn't penalise Rosberg as well then McLaren would have had grounds for an appeal. But they took their time with this one. Normally a penalty like this between some lesser drivers would get dealt whilst the race was still running. But I suspect a lot of phone calls were made following this incident...

Not to mention the fact that the red light seemed to be on longer than necessary

I havent read the whole thread - but it seems a bit of bs that McLaren/LH gets a penalty for what is in essence a racing incident - yes its in the pitlane, but it wasnt exactly dangerous or anything (stupid yes, not dangerous) McLaren should have warned LH also, but Kimi may have gained a place but could have easily been too slow on the out laps and LH could have got past him (with the McLaren getting its tires hotter more quickly) just as easily as "Kimi could have won"

Not only that but it was an innocious accident that caused the safety car in the first place

All in the past now - France should be very interesting

Not sure why Massa was so awful (admittedly Kova was even worse, but Massa should have been nearer Kimi than he was even allowing for the botched pitstop surely?)

FACT - Before the pitstop LH was controlling the race, even if Kimi had a bit of speed on him in the last few laps before the p/s - LH had basically controlled the weekend upto that point (using different tyres etc) - Ferrari's where losing several tenths around the hairpin and a few other corners, the lead McLaren was working very well indeed, no reason to suggest it would have slowed down dramatically

Dotn get me wrong Im not saying LH would have definitely won, but you cant say he would have definitely lost either

It actually suits Kimi in a stupid way (the championship hasnt changed - and he was still third and at best 2nd at the instant of the crash, and could have been 3nd very quickly if the race had continued

 

[Skeeter]

Not to mention the fact that the red light seemed to be on longer than necessary

I havent read the whole thread - but it seems a bit of bs that McLaren/LH gets a penalty for what is in essence a racing incident - yes its in the pitlane, but it wasnt exactly dangerous or anything (stupid yes, not dangerous) McLaren should have warned LH also, but Kimi may have gained a place but could have easily been too slow on the out laps and LH could have got past him (with the McLaren getting its tires hotter more quickly) just as easily as "Kimi could have won"

Not only that but it was an innocious accident that caused the safety car in the first place

All in the past now - France should be very interesting

Not sure why Massa was so awful (admittedly Kova was even worse, but Massa should have been nearer Kimi than he was even allowing for the botched pitstop surely?)

Lewis ignored a clearly visible red light that should have been on as the safety car train was still passing the pit exit, and caused an avoidable accident. How on earth is that a "racing incodent"? It was his fault, he got punished. Jeese.

 

[tonyyeb]

Lewis ignored a clearly visible red light that should have been on as the safety car train was still passing the pit exit, and caused an avoidable accident. How on earth is that a "racing incodent"? It was his fault, he got punished. Jeese.

+1

 

[NathanE]

It's not as black and white as you are making out Skeeter. It's like the people that say "oh McLaren cheated last year, end of story." Unfortunately for them that story was only just getting started and is far more complex than it would seem at face value.

The whole pit incident was wierd. It was wierd for starters to see so many cars pile into the pits all at once. This raised my eyebrow even before the incident happened as I suspected something bad might happen...

There are many variables to account for. For starters, McLaren has been pushed and shoved around the pit lane this season like no mans business. Some races they are the last garage, some they are in the middle. It's a joke. This too could have been a factor in the incident. A driver likes to get used to his pit lane procedures and it doesn't help when every other race they are changing where you are in the pit lane so you have to rethink all your speed limiter stuff and what not.

Seeings BMW and Ferrari side by side was wierd to me, watching it on TV. So it must have been even wierder to LH. Unfortunately this is how accidents always happen even on public roads. Something unexpected happens and you don't always spot it early enough to react or choose the correct reaction.

I have never denied that LH lost concentration. But can you really blame him. It's a pretty normal thing for a racing driver to do... whack a speed limiter on and give your head a few seconds of rest. He saw the two cars in front side by side clearly drag racing each other. He certainly won't make that mistake again.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Seeings BMW and Ferrari side by side was wierd to me, watching it on TV. So it must have been even wierder to LH. Unfortunately this is how accidents always happen even on public roads. Something unexpected happens and you don't always spot it early enough to react or choose the correct reaction.

Could not agree more...

I also had a bad feeling when they all peeled off into the pits, and again when i saw cars side by side like that in the pits.

 

[NathanE]

Considering we were merely discussing the finer details of the incident and were already largely in agreement with the obvious details (such as LH making a mistake), it is a shame Skeeter had to resort to cheap shots and insults.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'd like to offer my opinion on the incident but I'm worried I'll get suspended if I disagree with NathanE. Is this the case?

 

[NathanE]

No go ahead Fox This guy was completely inflammatory, don't know if you saw his deleted post?

 

[Flibster]

I'd also liek to add, that if Kimi wasn't taken out and then got past Kubica - thats would have been overtaking under the safety car - a black flag offence.

Lose-lose either way for Kimi really there.

 

[Peg]

I'd also liek to add, that if Kimi wasn't taken out and then got past Kubica - thats would have been overtaking under the safety car - a black flag offence.

Lose-lose either way for Kimi really there.

Whose to say Kimi would have got past Kubica though. Thats all supposition. Does this incident mean James Hunt has had his nickname nicked by hamilton now.

 

[NathanE]

That's another good point. Technically Kimi should have queued behind Kubica in a single file column. AFAIK that is in the rules as well? Especially since under the SC he wasn't allowed to overtake Kubica anyway.

Maybe Kimi wouldn't have done that who knows. But it certainly looked like he was up for a drag with Kubica if it wasn't for the red light. I just don't see why he lined up side by side with Kubica that's all. Were they exchanging jokes?

 

[ChrisD.]

I’m of the opinion that there is too much litigation in F1, which is a microcosm of society in general.

10/15 years ago you didn’t get all this and that ****. People got in trouble for having illegal mods on cars or whatever but nowadays, OH you had a prang, BAN BAN BAN!

Yeah good idea, this promotes racing doesn't it? Hamilton is a racer and wants to race. Subsection B paragraph 13.B dictates there is a red light at the end of the pit lane blablablablablablabla. Get lost! Granted Hamilton gets paid 14 million pounds a minute so it might be in his interest on his gross salary to not drive into the back of someone in the pit lane, but it is an accident.

Kimi had an accident in Monaco. It’s just pants. Let them race and get on with it.

 

[JUMPURS]

My point being was that LH saw the two in front were racing each other (in the pit lane). LH assumed they were both basically dragging it to see who would win over after exiting the pit lane. LH was too focused on that and how he would go about profiting from their tussle.

In the pit lane it is very wierd and not common to see two cars side by side fighting for position.

Hamilton can't tell the difference between 2 cars going 0mph and 2 cars dragging out the pit lane??

I can see how the diff between 0 and 60mph would be confusing to someone who earns millions to drive a car.

 

[JUMPURS]

I’m of the opinion that there is too much litigation in F1, which is a microcosm of society in general.

10/15 years ago you didn’t get all this and that ****. People got in trouble for having illegal mods on cars or whatever but nowadays, OH you had a prang, BAN BAN BAN!

Yeah good idea, this promotes racing doesn't it? Hamilton is a racer and wants to race. Subsection B paragraph 13.B dictates there is a red light at the end of the pit lane blablablablablablabla. Get lost! Granted Hamilton gets paid 14 million pounds a minute so it might be in his interest on his gross salary to not drive into the back of someone in the pit lane, but it is an accident.

Kimi had an accident in Monaco. It’s just pants. Let them race and get on with it.

So we shouldn't have rules??

 

[sunama]

Could have been a great race, but Hamilton doesnt seem to have the etiquette that some of the drivers have yet, seems that if hes not going to win the dummy comes out and to win he will drive as dirty as he possibly can.

I cant argue with you that one. Hamilton has an overwhelming desire to win - something that has perhaps been lacking for the last few years from our British drivers. Button had a lot of potential, but got side tracked with shagging, unfortunately. He is now simply making up the numbers and can barely keep pace with the oldest man in F1. Its shocking and embarrassing, in all honesty.

I for one like his overwhelming desire to win as that is what will get you places. He basically, doesnt care who he screws in the process of winning. MS, Senna and Prost were all like this. Mansell was a gentleman and would never partake in something so sordid.

We can argue about the decision till the cows come home, but it wont make any difference now. We just have to wait till the next race and see how it unfolds.

And with regard to Alonso not being penalised because Raikonnen wasnt penalised. Yea I suppose you could be right. But look at it this way.

Hamilton went into the back of Alonso in Bahrain, but wasnt penalised for it.
Racing incident. (Ok Alonso wasnt damaged, but thats not the point I guess, its all about continuity at the end of the day and thusfar the FIA has showed continuity with regards to penalties applied to the specific situations in each of the examples above).

Had the Ferrari driver come off 2nd best, then I'm sure the offending driver would've got penalised. I'm noticing far too many title influencing decisions that are going Ferrari's way.

For McLaren or any other team to win the titles, I think they will have to absolutely dominate the season and beat Ferrari into the ground. This is why I wanted Alonso to stay at McLaren - if this was so, odds are that McLaren would definitely be leading the constructors race and maybe even the WDC.

 

[Peg]

For McLaren or any other team to win the titles, I think they will have to absolutely dominate the season and beat Ferrari into the ground. This is why I wanted Alonso to stay at McLaren - if this was so, odds are that McLaren would definitely be leading the constructors race and maybe even the WDC.

Of course the 1999 season shows your argument to be very weak. Hakkinen in a Mclaren beat Irvine in a Ferrari by just 2 points.