2022 mini-budget discussion

Mrwong · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:15

two prominent hedge fund bosses told City associates that Mr Kwarteng was "a useful idiot".

MSN

Roar87 · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:20

Murphy said:
How is it after more than 6 years of having this addressed you still believe in such tosh, is it that you have someone IRL indoctrinating you or something?

The left (what you mean by that goodness knows as even Thatcher could be considered left of our current government) didn't "allow unlimited migration" any more than any other government, just because we decided not to exert control it doesn't mean we never had any and believing otherwise is simply excusing the very thing you seemingly dislike, by blaming our membership of the EU (this is certainly not the thread to discuss that) you're failing to hold the government to account.

I CBA to address any other the twaddle you spouted as not only is this not the thread for it but you've raised these exact same points multiple times in the past and every time you have they've been so thoroughly rebutted that it's frankly shocking that you still buy into the propaganda.

So basically if the less well-off can't afford it they shouldn't have children (you ever heard of eugenics?)

And lets not forget they all, every single one of them, have "Sky, fibre broadband, cigarettes, booze, expensive clothes" and it's got nothing to do with 10% (roughly 5 million adults) are trying to survive on an income of less than £14k per year.

The minimum wage would have someone earn close to £20k for a 40 hour week so you're basically saying 5 million adults don't have full time jobs and that's the governments fault lol

Richie · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:20

thenewoc said:
But they inherited a wrecked country from Labour who also had to sell of our gold to try and dig themselves out of the pit they made for everyone.

So, after these 12 years, would you consider the UK to be better or worse currently than 2010?

Richie · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:24

Roar87 said:
The minimum wage would have someone earn close to £20k for a 40 hour week so you're basically saying 5 million adults don't have full time jobs and that's the governments fault lol

A full time job, according to the government, is 16+ hours a week.

So, given the NMW of £9.50, the minimum wage for a government mandated full time job is £7,904.

Mrwong · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:24

Richie said:
So, after these 12 years, would you consider the UK to be better or worse currently than 2010?

worse. there re a few things that I would change, but they keep making it worse. Do /i see 90 pence to the dollar yes.

Roar87 · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:25

Richie said:
A full time job, according to the government, is 16+ hours a week.

So, given the NMW of £9.50, the minimum wage for a government mandated full time job is £7,904.

So should we expect to work 16 hours a week and complain if we can't afford our bills, is that your expectation? In what other country can someone work 16 hours a week and pay their bills?

thenewoc · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:26

cheesyboy said:
So we build a society where 20% of jobs are insufficiently remunerated to support living costs, and blame the people working those jobs for being suckers for doing them?

Those people had the same access to an education system that the rest of society had and the tax payers are subsidising them not the other way around. In addition to that there's a big difference to prioritising living costs to those that actually are, and not lumping in things that people believe they have a right to because they've seen the Beckham's or such like advertising. If you have a poorly paid job you should be in the low end of the housing market and not buying luxuries so that you're doing everything possible to reduce your outgoings.

I have also been a strong advocate that the housing market is broken but that is further exacerbated with how our population has grown through importing low skilled or no skilled immigration, either whilst in the EU or via the economic migrants.

Murphy · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:29

Roar87 said:
The minimum wage would have someone earn close to £20k for a 40 hour week so you're basically saying 5 million adults don't have full time jobs and that's the governments fault lol

Considering it's the government who's responsible for the economy yea it's their fault if someone doesn't have a full time job.

If you're so desperate to assign blame who would attribute it too?

Roar87 · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:30

Murphy said:
Considering it's the government who's responsible for the economy yea it's their fault if someone doesn't have a full time job.

If you're so desperate to assign blame who would attribute it too?

Are the government responsible for the economy, where is that said?

thenewoc · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:30

Rilot said:
So, essentially, what you are saying is that those people who are incapable of doing more highly paid jobs should not be able to have families yes?
The 1950s called, they want their eugenics back.

It should be strongly discouraged until they're in a position to care for them, which also includes being able to afford them. Anyone sending the kids to school without feeding them breakfast for instance should be receiving a strong visit from social services. I suspect a lot of these are in possession of various luxuries such as Sky and/or a car on finance, further demonstrating poor money management to be paying interest on borrowing rather than getting their priorities right.

If they can't do a better paid job then they need to work multiple jobs. That in itself makes it unrealistic to also be able to bring up children if you can't afford to be at home enough of the time.

They should probably stay living at home longer or be in a bed sit to match their outgoings more realistically with their income and plans for a family.

Richie · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:30

Roar87 said:
So should we expect to work 16 hours a week and complain if we can't afford our bills, is that your expectation? In what other country can someone work 16 hours a week and pay their bills?

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

@Murphy posted that 10% of the population earn under £14k and you rebutted it with a 40 hour week and added in that the aforementioned group of 5 million people don't work a full time job i.e. - their fault for not having, what you class, as a full time job

I simply advised you what a full time job actually is so you posted factually and not just what you think is correct.

thenewoc · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:34

Murphy said:
Considering it's the government who's responsible for the economy yea it's their fault if someone doesn't have a full time job.

If you're so desperate to assign blame who would attribute it too?

But many of the population were also free to come and settle here when we were part of the EU.

Roar87 · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:36

Richie said:
Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

@Murphy posted that 10% of the population earn under £14k and you rebutted it with a 40 hour week and added in that the aforementioned group of 5 million people don't work a full time job i.e. - their fault for not having, what you class, as a full time job

I simply advised you what a full time job actually is so you posted factually and not just what you think is correct.

Ok, well those people earning under £14k I would suggest are choosing to limit the amount of hours they work, which is absolutely their choice - how ever that isn't the governments fault.

chroniclard · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:38

This whole discussion is just one endless deflection from the unpleasant righties and their failing ideology. Standard.

thenewoc · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:39

Richie said:
So, after these 12 years, would you consider the UK to be better or worse currently than 2010?

Worse because our population has continued to grow at a rate that isn't necessary and a pandemic plus a European war with Russia.

Richie · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:40

thenewoc said:
Worse because our population has continues to grow at a rate that isn't necessary.

So no responsibility pushed to the governments policies at all? It's all the citizen's fault for the country failing?

Murphy · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:40

Roar87 said:
Are the government responsible for the economy, where is that said?

Wow, you're really stacking up the question ain't you, first you don't answer who you'd assign blame too for someone not being in full time employment and now you've added who you think is responsible for the economy.

FYI underemployment, people who want to work more than 16 hours but can't because it's unavailable, is currently 6.7% so your why don't they just work more is utter rubbish.

thenewoc said:
But many of the population were also free to come and settle here when we were part of the EU.

What? That isn't even remotely related to what you replied to.

thenewoc · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:42

Richie said:
So no responsibility pushed to the governments policies at all? It's all the citizen's fault for the country failing?

I didn't say it was the citizen's fault, we are where we are, very much so because of a pandemic and a European war with Russia. Whoever was in charge couldn't wave a magic wand with finances to cover the events of the last few years.

It's a case of deep recession under the raise taxes to pay for recent years vs invest in stimulating the economy and preventing so many businesses going under and loosing the jobs they provided.

chroniclard · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:44

Take responsibility for 12 years of failed ideology you wet blankets

Murphy · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:48

Indeed, they seem to think the government isn't responsible for anything but then that raises the question of why they bother voting if they think the government can't actually do anything.