2022 mini-budget discussion

Richie · 2 Oct 2022 at 18:48

thenewoc said:
I didn't say it was the citizen's fault,.

Well, you did.... before you went back and edited it after being challenged on it (bit in bold was edited in)

thenewoc said:
Worse because our population has continued to grow at a rate that isn't necessary and a pandemic plus an European war with Russia.

Roar87 · 2 Oct 2022 at 19:27

Murphy said:
Wow, you're really stacking up the question ain't you, first you don't answer who you'd assign blame too for someone not being in full time employment and now you've added who you think is responsible for the economy.

FYI underemployment, people who want to work more than 16 hours but can't because it's unavailable, is currently 6.7% so your why don't they just work more is utter rubbish.

There are over a million job vacancies in the UK, 6.7% under employment seems like a fairly low figure, what would you expect that to be, 2%?

jpaul · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:20

At least Govey is in the corner of the working man (he's had his period on the bench now)

shaden, but ... did they not allow cameras in to all the truss conference speeches ? guru murphy was describing the truss audience as 2/3 full with partial applause, people remaining in their seats.

Uther · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:21

jpaul said:
At least Govey is in the corner of the working man (he's had his period on the bench now)

shaden, but ... did they not allow cameras in to all the truss conference speeches ? guru murphy was describing the truss audience as 2/3 full with partial applause, people remaining in their seats.

Quite a few MP's have declined to attend apparently.

Chris Wilson · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:26

jpaul said:
At least Govey is in the corner of the working man (he's had his period on the bench now)

<snip>

You have to be joking, surely?

"Govey...."

The only corner he's in is what he perceives might be the most useful for him to be in.

V F · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:27

chroniclard said:
This whole discussion is just one endless deflection from the unpleasant righties and their failing ideology. Standard.

I see we're back to the right versus left again. It never changes. Were you right with your voting through your entire life were you? Are you such a saint? Labour wasn't exactly a hillside of marigolds and daffodils from 2001 - 2010. As well as the delayed catchup of their policies coming through the system.

Combat squirrel · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:27

chroniclard said:
Take responsibility for 12 years of failed ideology you wet blankets

Finally someone anti tory on the forum, astonishing, well said my friend.

Goodie · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:29

thenewoc said:
But they inherited a wrecked country from Labour who also had to sell of our gold to try and dig themselves out of the pit they made for everyone.

Is this a parody account? It is isn’t it?

Uther · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:32

V F said:
I see we're back to the right versus left again. It never changes. Were you right with your voting through your entire life were you? Are you such a saint? Labour wasn't exactly a hillside of marigolds and daffodils from 2001 - 2010. As well as the delayed catchup of their policies coming through the system.

I have no illusions that a Labour government would right all the disasters of the last 12 years (14 by the time the Cons are out) but at this point I would take Lord Buckethead over Truss.

jpaul · 2 Oct 2022 at 20:44

Chris Wilson said:
The only corner he's in is what he perceives might be the most useful for him to be in.

in the land of the Truss, the one eyed Gove is king.
(Govey is a term they they use satirically in a lot of R4 shows, not sure how he is represented in spitting image if that is still running)

Uther · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:08

Can someone explain JRM's man maths because I'm not quite getting it:

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'

Business Secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg said he would not be surprised if the cut to the top rate of income tax would raise extra revenue.
He told a fringe event at the Tory party conference: "Cutting the tax rate from 50p to 45p didn't actually cost the taxpayer anything at all, it saw income come in.
"So let's be careful about these forecasts. They are not holy writ, they are guesses at what may happen and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that 40p raises more money for HMRC than 45p does."

One More Solo · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:19

V F said:
To be honest... If there was a vote tomorrow and this mess today still exists or has become really dire by 2024, I don't see where I could put my vote. None of them are delivering. None of them are even capable.

How exactly are parties other than the Tories meant to ”deliver” other than by forcing a majority government into repeated u-turns as Labour has done?

Stretch · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:21

Uther said:
Can someone explain JRM's man maths because I'm not quite getting it:

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'
Business Secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg said he would not be surprised if the cut to the top rate of income tax would raise extra revenue.
He told a fringe event at the Tory party conference: "Cutting the tax rate from 50p to 45p didn't actually cost the taxpayer anything at all, it saw income come in.
"So let's be careful about these forecasts. They are not holy writ, they are guesses at what may happen and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that 40p raises more money for HMRC than 45p does."

Laffer curve.

The effect of tax cuts on economic growth and revenue - Economics Help

The effect of income tax cuts on consumer spending, government borrowing, economic growth and inflation. Do tax cuts really increase the rate of economic growth and self-finance? or is is 'Voodoo' economics?

www.economicshelp.org

Combat squirrel · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:22

The answer now is reform - it's a clearly failed system.

Proportional representation & ban MP's from having other jobs or ties to big business - if they can't do that, they cannot be an MP - it would begin to remove the rife & rampant abuse of power.

cheesyboy · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:25

Uther said:
"Cutting the tax rate from 50p to 45p didn't actually cost the taxpayer anything at all, it saw income come in

This was a sleight of hand. The reduction in top rate was announced in advance (as is usual), so high earners deferred income to the next tax year: hence lower tax take at the higher rate when comparing year on year

We'll see the same effect this time, and the Tories will use the same trick to make their claims.

chroniclard · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:28

V F said:
I see we're back to the right versus left again. It never changes. Were you right with your voting through your entire life were you? Are you such a saint? Labour wasn't exactly a hillside of marigolds and daffodils from 2001 - 2010. As well as the delayed catchup of their policies coming through the system.

Was better, fact. Tories have failed, people need to stop deflecting and move onto something better.

Kirkyl85 · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:31

JRM is The Tory ****.

LOAM · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:36

cheesyboy said:
So we build a society where 20% of jobs are insufficiently remunerated to support living costs, and blame the people working those jobs for being suckers for doing them?

Don't forget whilst expecting them to boost the population so that we can stop immigration.

cheesyboy · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:44

LOAM said:
Don't forget whilst expecting them to boost the population so that we can stop immigration.

Well I'll give @thenewoc credit on that one: he's utterly unbothered by the needs of the future workforce, so happily rules out immigration AND doesn't think people should have kids.

Chris Wilson · 2 Oct 2022 at 21:48

cheesyboy said:
Well I'll give @thenewoc credit on that one: he's utterly unbothered by the needs of the future workforce, so happily rules out immigration AND doesn't think people should have kids.

He never said people should not have kids, he said they should not have kids if they cannot afford to raise them to adulthood.

2022 mini-budget discussion

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'​

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'​

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'

Rees-Mogg says top rate income tax cut 'could raise extra revenue'