29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country

troops said:
The argument that they do the crappy jobs that Brits wont is flawed because in the years before the mass open door we did ok.
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Also, funny how that argument didn't exist pre-2004.

I'm in my early 30s now, so not ancient and when I was at school the idea that some jobs were 'too good' for me and my school friends just didn't exist. We knew if you didn't work hard you'd end up being a cleaner or working in McDonald's.

And even if it's true, it's not an excuse but a massive problem if you have members of your population thinking they are above doing unskilled work (although I do think kids are fed far more pipe dreams and the X-Factor fame overnight bubble nowadays but that's another topic).
 
Really don't see the issue tbh... they're part of the EU so have every right to come here.

As with other Eastern European migrants they likely won't be claiming benefits but rather they'll likely be economically active and contributing to our society.
 
scorza said:
IT industry apart, there has never been the same sort of competition for middle class occupations as there was in lower class occupations when Poland joined the EU. Yes sure all your examples are true but those are all examples selective immigration through a managed visa programme, not the sort of mass immigration we saw with Poles coming to the UK.
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Plenty of Frenchies and other EU nationals working in the City... In fact London is one of the biggest French population centers... (based on our French population alone we'd be their 6th biggest city) they even elect their own 'London' MP to the French parliament... and French politicians come over here to canvas etc...

The French certainly aren't here to do working class jobs.
 
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As with other Eastern European migrants they likely won't be claiming benefits but rather they'll likely be economically active and contributing to our society.
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They are entitled to claim for child benefit that are not even here and so entitled to working tax credits for low paid jobs
 
dowie said:
Really don't see the issue tbh... they're part of the EU so have every right to come here.

As with other Eastern European migrants they likely won't be claiming benefits but rather they'll likely be economically active and contributing to our society.
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lol...

wait did I say lol?

yeah I did, LOL!
 
estebanrey said:
I live in a city and I can't think of a shopping parade that doesn't have at least one Polish Food shop on it. The Polish shops I see have all their stuff written in Polish and clearly have a 'Poles only' feel about them.
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The nearest Polish shop to me in my home town of Chatham is run by Turks, or maybe Turkish Cypriots. Labels are not translated. They also have a lot of stuff with greek lattering on tins and jars and these are also not translated. The reason for it very simple, I think, there is about as much chance of Englishman looking for calf tongue in aspic and vinegar or pork stuffed cabbage rolls in sauerkraut brine among shelf labels as there is for Polish folk enquiring about Greek, Turkish or Anatolian delicacies, be it lamb's head or jarred kokoretsi organs and intestines in lard. In other words, I don't thinks it's "ef you, Polish customers only", it's more of a "if you don't recognize the tin in the shop, it's probably not a toad in a hole ingredient".


troops said:
The Poles killed the construction industry years ago but mainly down to greedy developers wanting cheap labour.
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I think "killed construction industry" is a bit of an exaggeration. I like to think of it more as an "market equalizer". The world where fresh bricky with two week vocational course could earn more than Police officer with overtime, or where young sparkies could buy half page adds in yellow pages for their "call out fee + £££ per each 15 minutes" services is probably never coming back. But as a result, at least here in Kent, the price of building an extension is now about half of what it was in 2006. And when you hire plumbers, decorators or carpenters they no longer cost more than most of us, clients earn a day. I consider this beneficial and I think a bit of competition corrected a lot anomalies, it brought back a bit of order to sector that used to be, and still is in a lot of niche services, prone to developing very unregulated and deluded pricing policies. But then again I would, I only "just" arrived in UK on a boat in 1994, I am one of those pesky job stealing, marked deregulating foreigners myself.

Oddly enough, 2005 New Member States migrants will suffer the most from Bulgarian/Romanian wave. The newcomers are not coming for office vacancies or markets requiring higher education. They will go mostly for the low pay, typically Polish/Latvian/Czech temporary positions in agriculture/catering/packing/factories and building sites. There will be a lot of the jack-of-all-trades and handyman sole traders, car mechanics and people with driving licenses for everything from forklift to specialized forestry equipment appearing on kerbsides around the country. And thousands of small outfits with mini fleets of T.I.R. tractors and haul trucks and endless rotation of midnight runners permanently strapped to caffeine drips on wage margins so tiny it will completely wipe the floor with all the "contract stealing" haulage firms using [PL][CZ] and [LV] truckers.
 
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GAC said:
yeah adapt for a lot of tradesmen is to work for near min wage and pray it starts going back up to what it should be for a skilled job. but i doubt that will happen with large building companies trying to get every penny out of the boxes they knock out nowadays.

as for retraining its a great idea but as many have experienced on here dont expect any sort of actual help from anyone, also how does someone with a mortgage and family drop it all to become a student.

thanks to labour and the glorious eu theres thousands of people who are now royaly screwed and anyone who thinks different really need to take a look around at whats happened in some parts of the country rather than pasting extracts of gov reports in to the min wage and its impact.
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Yep, they definitely need to fund such retraining. They've already paid into the system and if they keep complaining about unemployment then they need to start being proactive about these things.
 
The idea that immigration has decimated wages is pure rubbish. The overall effect on wages has been near zero, with a small drop in low-end wages and a small rise in higher-end wages. Effects on prior waves of immigrants has been larger.

Here: have a read of a few papers
 
funny how everyone wants to point out various reports on how immigration effect wages. maybe you should talk to a few people in the trade and find out whats really going on.

as for it leveling out the prices for call out's and daily rates funny how some people have issues with the building trade and see it as a less skilled job than there own, for anyone who thinks they are charging too much as its a easy job maybe you should have a go at it.
 
Mr Jack said:
The idea that immigration has decimated wages is pure rubbish. The overall effect on wages has been near zero, with a small drop in low-end wages and a small rise in higher-end wages. Effects on prior waves of immigrants has been larger.

Here: have a read of a few papers
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There's no point, no one will read it. They'll just go to their favourite rag which confirms their own unfounded biases, prejudices and fallacies and take that as true.

Hatter The Mad said:
People need to read this report before spouting from their ass about wage impact from immigration
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Voltar said:
To be honest I'd be coming over here at all costs were I not lucky enough to have been born here. Can't exactly blame them or anyone else who comes over.
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Exactly.

The borders coming down made that an easy option for the lower educated/lower skilled. The borders were less of a deterant to highly educated / higher skilled as they just got the Visa, its not hard for a person with decent education to jump through the hoops, its a lot harder for the low educated.
This is precisely why the professional classes have always had "foreigners" and that it was rare for lower end jobs to have "foreigners" IN PROPORTION to the number of people who do those jobs.
 
You can't be in the EU and cherry pick the best of the EU. That is why Farage is very clear about it. He says it is either in or out. There is no in, BUT we don't want common fisheries policy, no Romanians, no this and that. There is just no chance that the rest of the EU will allow the UK to remain in the EU but not have to sacrifice and abide by rules they don't like.
 
I dont understand this just in general. Whom does this benefit? Its not going to benefit the majority of countries. Its not going to benefit, Romania or Bulgaria. Of course people should be allowed to move wherever they want, but if you did allow that, then you would probably end up with super massive cities with straining resources. Its like lots of things now, no real thought behind the consequences of things.
 
Calabi said:
I dont understand this just in general. Whom does this benefit? Its not going to benefit the majority of countries. Its not going to benefit, Romania or Bulgaria. Of course people should be allowed to move wherever they want, but if you did allow that, then you would probably end up with super massive cities with straining resources. Its like lots of things now, no real thought behind the consequences of things.
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Cheap immigrant labour, businesses loves it.
 
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