29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country

No1newts said:
I have no issue with immigration.

But...

People should be entitled to zero benefits and have to pay for the NHS until they have been a resident for 10 years. This will scare off the scum and scroungers and then decent migrants who want to work and live here are more than welcome IMO.
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+1
 
scorza said:
IT industry apart, there has never been the same sort of competition for middle class occupations as there was in lower class occupations when Poland joined the EU. Yes sure all your examples are true but those are all examples selective immigration through a managed visa programme, not the sort of mass immigration we saw with Poles coming to the UK.
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Nonsense. I've recruited for a senior accountant (qualified) position where over 75% of the applications were not british by birth, this was years back, you rarely if ever know the nationality now when looking at CVs. I was quite stunned when I had Aussis, New Zealanders, Yanks, and Indians apply.

The change was a marked switch from low ratio to a more reasonable ratio for low/unskilled.

I bet if you could look through professional level people in the UK the ratio in work would be higher than for example building.

Yes in sheer numbers terms a lot more poles came across, but there are a hell of a lot more jobs as well. Its comparative effect not raw numbers. I worked in the support sector to building when repeatedly building companies were complaining of shortage of skills with UK workforce, the poles came to fill those vacancies.
 
Apparently polish is the 2nd most common language in England and Wales, with a large percent of them speaking no English at all. These Romanians will make much less effort than the Poles and will come in higher numbers.

Apparently some papers and magazines are now being published in Polish in England and Wales. The English are loosing their heritage and culture fast. I for one say we fight....
 
robskinner said:
Nonsense. I've recruited for a senior accountant (qualified) position where over 75% of the applications were not british by birth, this was years back, you rarely if ever know the nationality now when looking at CVs. I was quite stunned when I had Aussis, New Zealanders, Yanks, and Indians apply.

The change was a marked switch from low ratio to a more reasonable ratio for low/unskilled.

I bet if you could look through professional level people in the UK the ratio in work would be higher than for example building.

Yes in sheer numbers terms a lot more poles came across, but there are a hell of a lot more jobs as well. Its comparative effect not raw numbers. I worked in the support sector to building when repeatedly building companies were complaining of shortage of skills with UK workforce, the poles came to fill those vacancies.
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Seriously though, the world is becoming one big melting pot. Here in Denmark where I live English is spoken left right and centre, you will harly ever ever go to a shop and speak to the cashier in English for them to not understand you. Travelling anywhere nowadays you hear English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, French, Scandinavian, Indian languages all mingling together. Its what the world is becoming, one big melting pot!
 
Dunno why theres such fuss over romanians or other eastern europeans, I belieive most of our immigration comes from the indian subcontinent, and the next town but two has so many afghans you're more likely to hear that than English on teh streets.

But I guess eastern europeans are white so fair game. Politically Correct Nu Speak means discussion of the other is forbidden.

Craterloads said:
I for one say we fight....
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What do you have in mind exactly? Its this kind of inflammatory post that that fuels the leftie liberals and others. I don't necessarily agree with them but at least they have rational arguments.
 
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robskinner said:
Nonsense. I've recruited for a senior accountant (qualified) position where over 75% of the applications were not british by birth, this was years back, you rarely if ever know the nationality now when looking at CVs. I was quite stunned when I had Aussis, New Zealanders, Yanks, and Indians apply.

The change was a marked switch from low ratio to a more reasonable ratio for low/unskilled.

I bet if you could look through professional level people in the UK the ratio in work would be higher than for example building.

Yes in sheer numbers terms a lot more poles came across, but there are a hell of a lot more jobs as well. Its comparative effect not raw numbers. I worked in the support sector to building when repeatedly building companies were complaining of shortage of skills with UK workforce, the poles came to fill those vacancies.
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I'm talking about the whole UK economy here, not one job application that may or may not have had an unusually high percentage of applications from immigrants. The point remains, all of those applicants had to go through a selective immigration process, whereas Polish people competing at the bottom end didn't. You know that sheer numbers matter here right?

Also, it'd be nice if you checked if the numbers supported your case instead of "betting" that they do.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
Dunno why theres such fuss over romanians or other eastern europeans, I belieive most of our immigration comes from the indian subcontinent, and the next town but two has so many afghans you're more likely to hear that than English on teh streets.

But I guess eastern europeans are white so fair game.
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No need to play the race card. Europeans are a problem because we cannot control their numbers due to EU laws, we have no powers to stop them. If everyone from the rest of the continent decided to move to the UK then we'd just have to accept it (obviously that wouldn't happen but I'm just making the point that we have no control over our own borders in the case of EU migration).

We can control immigration (outside illegal and asylum seekers of course) from non-EU countries.

Blackjack Davy said:
What do you have in mind exactly? Its this kind of inflammatory post that that fuels the leftie liberals and others. I don't necessarily agree with them but at least they have rational arguments.
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I disagree when a lot (not all but many) of leftie liberal simply shut down any opposition to uncontrolled immigration by playing the racist/xenophobe card. Go to the Guardian website and look at the comments section. Sure there's arguments for both sides but you'll quickly see 'racism', 'xenophobia' or 'hidden agenda' used by many of the more hardcore lefties every few comments. that to be is not a rational argument.
 
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There are good Romanians. I unfortunately had to separate with my ro gf this Christmas after 3 1/2 years of being together. She had a masters degree that she studied in the UK so could apply for her full time permit but due to careers and other location issue's we couldn't work it out. If she could work there would have been a better future for us... so in my personal opinion on this it would have been good. But at the same time, you get the bad Romanians also like the gypsies so on.
 
estebanrey said:
Firstly my intention was never to say immigration has zero effect of jobs at the upper end, only that it has very little affect.

Secondly you are using a different definition of 'middle-class' than me. When I use the term I mean people not just in skilled jobs (For example I'd still regard an electrician as working class) but rather what used to be called 'professional' jobs. So doctors, solicitors, head teachers, etc Basically anyone who pays the higher rate of tax (so £36k and over a year).

Now of course some of these do compete with immigrants but mostly they come from outside the EU. Like Indian doctors for example.

Furthermore, the higher up are the less immigration has a real effect on your ability to live. Someone on 34k a year for example may enjoy their current lifestyle and bemoan any cut but the fact is they can afford to drop down quite a bit before the get to the co-called "living wage" level. People currently struggling to live on minimum wage don't have that luxury.
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I guess that is part of the problem, in that middle-class means different things to different people. There was a poll a few years ago that showed 7 out of 10 Britons considered themselves middle-class. Around the same time, The Guardian was claiming that the middle-class was an "endangered species".
 
oulton said:
Seriously though, the world is becoming one big melting pot. Here in Denmark where I live English is spoken left right and centre, you will harly ever ever go to a shop and speak to the cashier in English for them to not understand you. Travelling anywhere nowadays you hear English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, French, Scandinavian, Indian languages all mingling together. Its what the world is becoming, one big melting pot!
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What's wrong with that then? lol :P
 
Craterloads said:
Apparently polish is the 2nd most common language in England and Wales, with a large percent of them speaking no English at all. These Romanians will make much less effort than the Poles and will come in higher numbers.

Apparently some papers and magazines are now being published in Polish in England and Wales. The English are loosing their heritage and culture fast. I for one say we fight....
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This is my point, Britain is feeling less like Britain... Go to Bradford.

I remember when I first came here 14 years ago on Irish passport, things were SOOOOOOOO different. I reckon it's time to leave this place.
 
Woah what a thread this is I for one will be voting UKIP:) most of these Bulgarians and Romanians wan't to get aboard the gravy train problem is this train is running out of gravy.
 
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