Soldato
A bit of insight...
Afghanistan - 20 years on
- Thread starter GreatAuk
- Start date
Certainly dispels a lot of myths.
Good to hear from someone who was actually embedded with troops in the end stage of the war. Hope we get more reports from journos who experienced what happened first hand (soldiers too, but then they have a vested interest to present the story in a particular way whereas journos should at least in theory be more impartial).
I'm trying hard not to get too annoyed by the 'soldiers were a well trained and equipped force that should have seen off the Taliban but they all ran away' comments many are making against news stories and on twitter etc. After all Joe Biden basically said that was the case so it's not a fringe opinion. I can only imagine what the relatives of the tens of thousands of dead Afghan army & police who died fighting over the past decades would think if they heard that.
Obviously I wasn't there but certainly sounds from the many sources available so far that it is a hugely crass and unfair generalisation to say the soldiers just ran away. They were put in impossible positions, given every reason not to fight (lack of pay, supplies, food), let down by leaders, and in some cases even ordered to surrender or abandon their equipment and run. And all this happening in the context of a state that has been basically set up to fail by its foreign architects, then not just abandoned but actively undermined by those same architects.
Maybe the soldiers were a bit useless at times as many people have also reported, and their leaders certainly let them down (would argue the leaders were also in very difficult positions post Feb 2020 and in the latter stages of US withdrawal), but just writing them off as cowards doesn't feel right to me.
I'm trying hard not to get too annoyed by the 'soldiers were a well trained and equipped force that should have seen off the Taliban but they all ran away' comments many are making against news stories and on twitter etc. After all Joe Biden basically said that was the case so it's not a fringe opinion. I can only imagine what the relatives of the tens of thousands of dead Afghan army & police who died fighting over the past decades would think if they heard that.
Obviously I wasn't there but certainly sounds from the many sources available so far that it is a hugely crass and unfair generalisation to say the soldiers just ran away. They were put in impossible positions, given every reason not to fight (lack of pay, supplies, food), let down by leaders, and in some cases even ordered to surrender or abandon their equipment and run. And all this happening in the context of a state that has been basically set up to fail by its foreign architects, then not just abandoned but actively undermined by those same architects.
Maybe the soldiers were a bit useless at times as many people have also reported, and their leaders certainly let them down (would argue the leaders were also in very difficult positions post Feb 2020 and in the latter stages of US withdrawal), but just writing them off as cowards doesn't feel right to me.
Soldato
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"Unaccompanied children."
Soldato
My understanding is the Taliban gave quarter to and sent home those who lay down their arms without resistance and when those who fought against them ran out of ammo they were mercilessly slaughtered. The Taliban made it abundantly clear the soldiers had a choice and without the support from above they had no reason to fight.
Who exactly do you think translators and support staff for the US occupation forces were going to be?
Indeed, I've read articles mentioning those sort of stark offers too. Read this today which talks a little a bit about the political situation which led to some of the problems the army ended up facing, with troops spread out in vulnerable isolated outposts unable to be resupplied: https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/afghanistan-army-collapse-taliban-11628958253
Edit - think there's a 1 article limit without signing up, so can't go back to read it again now grr
Yeah silly article limits
The Afghan army as per another article there was moulded around US needs not what was best for holding Afghanistan and that was more and more exposed as the US withdrew - they are just as much to blame for the collapse as the Afghan leadership - they left them without a chance instead of using the transitional phase to reconfigure to a more effective setup to stand on their own.
Man of Honour
The ending strikes me as being somewhat similar to the French or even the British soldiers in France in 1940. Not the same, but somewhat similar. There was a lot more corruption (e.g. the ghost soldiers) and divided loyalties in Afghanistan and a fair few of the ANA did just run away, but the fight was hopeless in both cases and the Taliban are a lot worse than the regular German military in 1940. The Taliban are more like the Dirlewanger brigade was. A unit so brutal that SS members made complaints about them being excessively brutal and did so often enough for senior SS officers to raise those complaints formally. People to run away from.
Soldato
They've launched someone's waifu pillow off a building:
Give it a few weeks and it’ll be people instead of pillows.
Caporegime
Mitch McConnell: 'I wouldn't have left. I think the policy we were pursuing was working.'
Does this man inhabit a parallel universe, or is he simply insane?
Does this man inhabit a parallel universe, or is he simply insane?
Caporegime
They've launched someone's waifu pillow off a building:
This is a fake viral video from 2 years ago, satirising ISIS.
Mitch McConnell: 'I wouldn't have left. I think the policy we were pursuing was working.'
Does this man inhabit a parallel universe, or is he simply insane?
As insane as claiming the Afghan army was 300,000 strong and as well equipped as any army in the world
It looks like the US needs to do some deep soul searching regardless of which side of the political spectrum they are on.
EDIT: On that note https://twitter.com/thomasjoscelyn/status/1427781472925126660
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Caporegime
As insane as claiming the Afghan army was 300,000 strong and as well equipped as any army in the world
That's what the DoD was telling him. They own it.
Soldato
They've launched someone's waifu pillow off a building:
IronWarrior hadn't been seen for quite a few months now. Just saying.
Soldato
I know exactly where your coming from and agree with every word you have just said
Soldato
The policy would have worked, but would have taken another 30-40 yearsMitch McConnell: 'I wouldn't have left. I think the policy we were pursuing was working.'
Does this man inhabit a parallel universe, or is he simply insane?
Caporegime
So we will be taking in 20k Afghan refugees over the next few years, 5k in the first year.
I was expecting more tbh, that actually seems quite a small number.
I was expecting more tbh, that actually seems quite a small number.
Unfortunately this is the knock on effect of having to process so many illegal economic migrants that are now crossing the channel as it leaves us without the resources and capacity to take more genuine asylum seekers that are clearly in need.