Usually cos they paid too much
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AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***
- Thread starter Jamin280672
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There are genuinely people in this world (and as you said, many on this forum). Who wish for prices to be, and remain high, to give them a sense of elitism. That they can afford such things and others can't.
It's been a while since I've programmed at such a low level but the difference between programming for a single core and a dual core is large. The difference between programming between dual core and quad core is not insignificant, but it's less than the difference between single and dual. The difference between programming for quad core and octo core is much less again. Basically, by the time you're optimizing your code for eight cores, you're also optimising it for twelve cores and sixteen cores and twenty-four cores. Software optimization goes 1, 2, Many.
We've hit eight cores as the standard in gaming. I expect future software to be pretty good at making use of any number of cores above that, short of stupid high workstation core counts.
Hopefully this thread isn't going to become another Brexit thread, but sticking to non-political points only, I don't think tariffs are a concern. Firstly, their removal if anything is likely to lower costs. Tariffs are used for either protectionist purposes (e.g. the EU puts high tariffs on African farmers because it wants to keep up the price of European farmer's goods) or for purely punitive purposes as part of a wider trade dispute. The EU doesn't have a competing CPU and GPU industry so there are no protectionist tariffs that I'm aware of on CPU and GPU products. And the UK, on exiting the EU, is unlikely to engage in some solo trade battles with the USA (and hopefully not China). So tariffs are unlikely.
What could hurt is a fall in the pound making the same goods relatively more expensive from our point of view. That could partly result from reduced confidence in the UK outside the snuggly warmth of the EU super-state. But more likely, imo, would result from uncertainty leading up to Brexit. Markets hate uncertainty more than anything. If it's down, they invest. If it's up, they invest (but differently). If it's spinning around with its arms in the air going "ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN IN THE NEXT HALF-HOUR," everyone backs away nervously. So we could well see a more depressed pound (and concomitant rise in the cost of imported goods) leading up to Brexit than after the event itself.
Either way, the concern is not tariffs, but a fall in the pound.
Probably. And that's sad. But I think most of it is a reaction to those who come on the forums and want luxury items to be super-cheap and attack companies for not undercutting their own profits to do so. There's definitely a real strain of that, I've seen it myself.
Caporegime
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There's a line when things start becoming too expensive.
Intel/AMD exist for customers, that's the long and short of it.
Righteous anger at the peasants for demanding cheaper luxury goods at the expense of profit margins, or the condescending anger of the PC master race elite. Neither feels quite right to me. Perhaps it’s a mixture with something else thrown in? But something odd happens that goes beyond people sharing a passion for their hobby. I’ve reached my limit for the super high end with the RTX cards. I can afford it but I cannot justify it to myself. I’d normally jump on Intel’s latest bandwagon, but now I’m excited for mid-high end Zen2 and I don’t feel bad about it at all.
lol Profit margins you can compensate by selling larger volumes. Better to sell 1,000 with $5 profit, than 10 with $50 profit
lol Profit margins you can compensate by selling larger volumes. Better to sell 1,000 with $5 profit, than 10 with $50 profit
I don’t know what their profit margins are like but both Intel and Nvidia appear to be doing well with their latest products. So there’s probably still tolerance in the market for yet higher pricing. Certainly any posts you see here calling for people to boycott products are quickly and angrily shouted down.
Historically in this industry you always got cheaper AND faster with each node shrink, now that's not the case. Some times it's the same price or more for incremental performance increase. There's lots of factors at play but it's physics that will take a chunk next time round
This is the main purpose for the companies to go finer nodes. But they begin to forget in their infinite greed..
High prices on the 1%, the top end are justified IMO, if they still sell. You do not get a Lambo or Aston Martin for peanuts and nor should you.
As long as there are cheaper lines, with a realistic chance of some overclocking for the enthusiast, I am content. Analogy being your Ford Focus or Honda Civic with an optional remap.
As long as there are cheaper lines, with a realistic chance of some overclocking for the enthusiast, I am content. Analogy being your Ford Focus or Honda Civic with an optional remap.
lol Profit margins you can compensate by selling larger volumes. Better to sell 1,000 with $5 profit, than 10 with $50 profit
I've explained the profit model with super high-end products here before but it's still not generally understood. Now Supply-Demand IS understood - you find the point where prices are low enough that lots of people will buy them but not so low that you don't make as much money per sale to make up for the increased sales. Selling one unit for £5,000 is not as good as selling twenty units for £500. Equally, selling forty units for £100 isn't as good as the 20x£500. That's supply and demand and everybody here gets it.
But the super end isn't on the same curve and isn't meant to be. This is because there are two markets - those who care about cost and those who don't. The supply-demand above is for those who care about cost. Their demand goes down as cost goes up. The second group are unresponsive to increased cost (up to a point). So why cap your high end? Create a second tier just for this market that is FAR off the same curve of value for money that the rest of your product line is, and is super expensive. If your sales to reasonable people are tailing off at £600, create a £1000 product that is way above everything else and offers only modest gains, because the "I don't care about cost" group will just as happily pay £1000 as they'll pay £600. The difference isn't a factor for them - they'll just buy the best regardless.
It's entirely logical - you see a reasonable curve of increasing cost to value up until near the top and then suddenly this crazy jump. The companies know what they are doing. The only downside is the shuffling hordes of people going around saying "the price is ridiculous". Well it isn't. It's just a SEPARATE supply and demand curve for a different group who don't care about a £400 difference in price. Companies make a lot of money on this principle of two separate curves. It's especially pronounced in markets where the products are almost entirely luxury items like GPUs. (We could all play on Ryzen APUs if we wanted to and our enjoyment wouldn't really be that much less!).
Yes, all clear. But we don't buy super end - we don't buy EPYCs and Xeons to run games on them.
There are no luxury PC components because in its nature, computers always need to get faster.
This isnot the automotive industry where a Ferrari is lux, or a boat to travel across the oceans.
I haven't read the whole thread but I'm seriously excited about AMDs new CPUs.
I would love to upgrade to Threadripper 3000 when it comes out as I need a shed load of cores for the work that I do. I better start saving up now.
I would love to upgrade to Threadripper 3000 when it comes out as I need a shed load of cores for the work that I do. I better start saving up now.
Epycs and Xeons for games, no. But people buy superfast CPUs, super-fast RAM (and 16GB+ of it), discrete graphics cards costing £400 or more, NVMe PCIev3x4 SSDs, 144Hz gaming monitors... These are luxury items. You can blow up aliens perfectly well on a Ryzen 5 with a couple of sticks of 2400 DDR4 on a 1080p 60Hz monitor and the game play would not be much different. Luxury goods are not "costs more than £60,000". A house costs much more and isn't a luxury good. An RTX 2080Ti costs less than a grand and certainly is! Luxury goods are those where you pay a substantial premium for something you don't need. Whether that's the good itself (like a yacht vs. no yacht) or the increased quality of the good (like a Mercades vs. a Renault).
I've gone with buying everything now and a 1920 so that I can upgrade to a higher core 2nd gen TR when they're cheaper but still get good power for now. But I do wonder if I've made a mistake coming down on this side of the PCI-Ev3 vs. v4 divide. Waiting is probably a smart move.
I'll probably jump on pcie 4 as soon as. Assuming the usual divide stays where mainstream is around 24 lanes with 40+ being the reserve of HEDT+, there's a small niche for a good GPU (or 2) and a bunch of stupid good storage (like the 4x NVMe raid cards) that, in theory, until cards/etc start using all the extra bandwidth, start becoming possible in the mainstream product range.
You can't because Ryzen's internal clocks depend on the memory sticks and you will see performance drops. Also, as far as I am aware the cheapest TVs already got Hz technologies like 200, 400, 800, 1200, etc.
People don't buy anything superfast. The superfast things are super expensive and for professional purposes only.
Those high refresh rates are purely internal interpolation, they won't support input signals above 60 Hz typically.
Ok but I meant that they are being used and they are very nice and visible. Not like PCs which get nothing - the stupid Google Chrome browser can't compare in displaying YouTube videos with my Panasonic TV which has internal hardware resources to make the viewing experience the best possible.