AMD Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) already in the works

MANFACE · 20 Jun 2019 at 19:16

Will go for the 3900X from a 2700X. Will keep X470 board for a while then might swap over to an X570.

robfosters · 20 Jun 2019 at 19:26

If I get the 3700x, do you think I’d be able to push it to 4.0 with the wraith cooler?

Wrong thread!

Jamin280672 · 20 Jun 2019 at 20:57

MANFACE said:
Will go for the 3900X from a 2700X. Will keep X470 board for a while then might swap over to an X570.

Im more interested in the X570 motherboards than I am RyZen 3000 CPU at the moment, the only thing the CPU would bring me is PCI-e 4.0 and a small speed increase, probably not noticeable in everyday use, same amount of PCI-e lanes from the CPU only it will be PCI-e 3.0 instead, what I really want is 3 nvme drives in RAID0 at full speed, and X570 will do that for me, even with my 2700X.

LePhuronn · 21 Jun 2019 at 11:44

Jamin280672 said:
what I really want is 3 nvme drives in RAID0 at full speed, and X570 will do that for me, even with my 2700X.

I'd double-check that before pulling the trigger. Part of the reason 3x NVMe RAID is there is because of the PCIe 4 link giving sufficient bandwidth from the CPU to the PCH to actually do it. Is this feature actually available with a PCIe 3 controller in the 2700X?

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:21

as a gamer I want them to focus on 4 cores and ultimate cpu speed. for gaming you don't need more than 4 cores.

i'd like to see a 4 core 10ghz cpu

jigger · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:32

Psycho Sonny said:
as a gamer I want them to focus on 4 cores and ultimate cpu speed. for gaming you don't need more than 4 cores.

i'd like to see a 4 core 10ghz cpu

You’ll need a time machine and possibly the help of Harry Potter. That ship sailed over a decade ago.

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:34

jigger said:
You’ll need a time machine and possibly the help of Harry Potter. That ship sailed over a decade ago.

well these 6 and 8 core cpus are pointless for us. it doesn't make any difference to fps.

need more clock speed and 6 cores maximum.

Meaker · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:35

LePhuronn said:
I'd double-check that before pulling the trigger. Part of the reason 3x NVMe RAID is there is because of the PCIe 4 link giving sufficient bandwidth from the CPU to the PCH to actually do it. Is this feature actually available with a PCIe 3 controller in the 2700X?

A 2700X has 24 PCI-E lanes

16x to the GPU
4x to the M.2
4x to the chipset

All Gen 3.

So maximum non graphics is 8X PCI-E Gen 3 speed.

With a 3000 series processor it's all the same except PCI-E Gen 4 speed.

I'm not sure on the situation Raiding across the CPU connected M.2 slots and chipset M.2.

Hades · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:35

Psycho Sonny said:
as a gamer I want them to focus on 4 cores and ultimate cpu speed. for gaming you don't need more than 4 cores.

i'd like to see a 4 core 10ghz cpu

I remember a similar debate when dual core arrived. Then another debate when quad core arrived.

DragonQ · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:41

Psycho Sonny said:
well these 6 and 8 core cpus are pointless for us. it doesn't make any difference to fps.

need more clock speed and 6 cores maximum.

History tells us you are likely to be wrong.

4K8KW10 · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:44

DragonQ said:
History tells us you are likely to be wrong.

Yeah, they moved to n-cores because they understood that a 1-core at 10-15 and more GHz is impossible

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:48

DragonQ said:
History tells us you are likely to be wrong.

i just don't see how they can make them more cores. when i'm gaming the game only uses x% of the cpu and nowhere near 100%. that's because it's relying on the cpu to do equations before it can work on the next set. they can't all be done side by side.

sure as games get more complicated they will be split up further. but core speed makes the biggest difference.

right now 4 cores with ultimate clock speed will beat any 8 core cpu. clock speed is king when it comes to gaming not core count.

the gpu does most of the work anyway.

Stephanie Peterson · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:50

keeping the industry back at quads on high clocks will do nothing but slow progress of engine development.
Plus there is only so far you can go with clock speeds and we have just about reached it now.

Games are a tiny part of the PC landscape, lots of the rest of it does respond better to multicores so its never going back to puny quads again.

DragonQ · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:52

Psycho Sonny said:
i just don't see how they can make them more cores. when i'm gaming the game only uses x% of the cpu and nowhere near 100%. that's because it's relying on the cpu to do equations before it can work on the next set. they can't all be done side by side.

sure as games get more complicated they will be split up further. but core speed makes the biggest difference.

right now 4 cores with ultimate clock speed will beat any 8 core cpu. clock speed is king when it comes to gaming not core count.

the gpu does most of the work anyway.

Setting aside your very simplistic understanding of software, what games are you talking about? There are plenty of newer ones that are bottlenecked by 4 cores. Sure if those 4 cores were at 10 GHz they might not be bottlenecked but the industry realised 15+ years ago that this isn't a reasonable expectation for silicon.

The older long pipeline designs got to 4 GHz (Pentium 4) many years ago and that was it. The fact that newer chips got to 5 GHz too (Bulldozer, Sandy Bridge/Skylake/Kaby Lake when overclocked, Coffee Lake) is pretty miraculous to be honest.

4K8KW10 · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:52

Psycho Sonny said:
i just don't see how they can make them more cores. when i'm gaming the game only uses x% of the cpu and nowhere near 100%. that's because it's relying on the cpu to do equations before it can work on the next set. they can't all be done side by side.

sure as games get more complicated they will be split up further. but core speed makes the biggest difference.

right now 4 cores with ultimate clock speed will beat any 8 core cpu. clock speed is king when it comes to gaming not core count.

the gpu does most of the work anyway.

You have to update your information. Recent games utilise 8 cores at 100%. 4 cores have no chance, except for slideshow, these days.

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:57

DragonQ said:
Setting aside your very simplistic understanding of software, what games are you talking about? There are plenty of newer ones that are bottlenecked by 4 cores. Sure if those 4 cores were at 10 GHz they might not be bottlenecked but the industry realised 15+ years ago that this isn't a reasonable expectation for silicon.

apex legends, cs:go are the main 2 i play. obviously cs:go is ancient but apex is new.

my point is they should have 16 core cpus at 5ghz and 4 cores at 15ghz so they cover all markets. rather than focusing on more and more cores with same speeds.

i want an improvement in cores speeds not just more cores which are going to sit there doing little.

DragonQ · 21 Jun 2019 at 15:59

Psycho Sonny said:
apex legends, cs:go are the main 2 i play. obviously cs:go is ancient but apex is new.

my point is they should have 16 core cpus at 5ghz and 4 cores at 15ghz so they cover all markets. rather than focusing on more and more cores with same speeds.

i want an improvement in cores speeds not just more cores which are going to sit there doing little.

Maybe you should think to yourself "hmm, why aren't there 4 core 15 GHz CPUs around?".

LePhuronn · 21 Jun 2019 at 16:03

Meaker said:
A 2700X has 24 PCI-E lanes

16x to the GPU
4x to the M.2
4x to the chipset

All Gen 3.

So maximum non graphics is 8X PCI-E Gen 3 speed.

With a 3000 series processor it's all the same except PCI-E Gen 4 speed.

I'm not sure on the situation Raiding across the CPU connected M.2 slots and chipset M.2.

Thinking about it now, I don't think my comment was correct.

According to the X570 block diagrams floating around, the chipset can have two M.2 drives attached with 4 lanes each in addition to the single M.2 hooked into the CPU. So right there I'm not sure if you could RAID all 3 drives, likely just the 2 on the PCH. But doesn't that also mean the PCH-CPU connection is only half the bandwidth of M.2 RAID0 (assuming both M.2 drives are PCIe 4 and max out their 4 lanes)?.

Jamin280672 · 21 Jun 2019 at 16:03

LePhuronn said:
I'd double-check that before pulling the trigger. Part of the reason 3x NVMe RAID is there is because of the PCIe 4 link giving sufficient bandwidth from the CPU to the PCH to actually do it. Is this feature actually available with a PCIe 3 controller in the 2700X?

I have already checked it out,it would work exactly the same way as it would with a RyZen 3000 cpu, only it will run at Gen3 instead of Gen4, but my nvme drives are Gen3 anyway, so I dont need Gen4, unless I want to spend £1000's changing everything, you still get the same amount of PCI-e lanes etc, only at Gen3 with 2000 series CPU's.

Taken from the MSI website, I noticed ASUS motherboards opted for 8 SATA ports and 2 M.2 slots, which is why I wont be buying ASUS, MSI and Gigabyte went for 6 SATA ports and 3 M.2 Drives:

AMD® X570 Chipset

6x SATA 6Gb/s ports
3x M.2 slots (Key M)1
- M2_1 slot (from AMD® X570 Chipset) supports PCIe 4.0 x4 (3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™) or 3.0 x4 (2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics) and SATA 6Gb/s 2242/ 2260/ 2280/ 22110 storage devices
- M2_2 slot (from AMD® X570 Chipset) supports PCIe 4.0 x4 (3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™) or 3.0 x4 (2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics) and SATA 6Gb/s 2242/ 2260/ 2280 storage devices
- M2_3 slot (from AMD® Processor) supports PCIe 4.0 x4 (3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™) or PCIe 3.0 x4 (2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics) 2242/ 2260/ 2280/ 22110 storage devices

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jun 2019 at 16:04

DragonQ said:
Maybe you should think to yourself "hmm, why aren't there 4 core 15 GHz CPUs around?".

because they haven't been able to crack the tech needed to do it yet. i'm sure it will happen one day but the focus seems to be on more cores. rather than more speed.

if we can overclock 3ghz cpu's to 5ghz at home. people like 8 pack are breaking world record speeds all the time then it can be done.