Does a list exist or anything of affected GPUs?
AOC G2460PF
- Thread starter TerminatorUK
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Does a list exist or anything of affected GPUs?
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it affects the r9 390, when i tested 144hz, i had the same issue when on the desktop. same behavior on an asus r9 280x dc2t..
there is a section on oc about it, link here:http://www.overclock.net/t/1497172/did-you-know-that-running-144-hz-causes-ridiculously-high-idle-temperatures-and-power-draw-on-your-nvidia-gpu
it affects both amd and nvidia cards
Thanks, I've got a 290x so I guess would be affected, though could always just set it to 120hz as you suggested above, can't imagine I'd notice a massive difference.
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120hz does indeed work fine on both my cards, and stops the memory clocks maxing when idle, you wont notice a massive difference between 120hz and 144hz really no.
My first impressions of the monitor aren't particularly favourable at the moment. I've not really had a chance to look at things in depth, but a few observations are as follows. It has a refresh rate dependent gamma curve, which is something I've seen on several 24" 144Hz models in the past. It essentially means the gamma is too low and things look hazy (washed out) at 144Hz. Try lowering the refresh rate to 60Hz and you'll see the difference.
The 'tricks' I was referring to unfortunately don't alleviate this. If you use 'BrightFrame' and set the frame size to '100' you can manually adjust the gamma on some models by changing the brightness and contrast from there (this is digital brightness and not the same as the usual brightness control of the monitor). I will be able to improve things with an ICC profile, no doubt, but this isn't ideal as some games don't use this and trying to enforce it with a utility can cause further issues. And inter-unit variation etc. Still, it's one of those monitors where this would seem to be beneficial regardless. And most modern games offer a 'Borderless Fullscreen' option that will certainly use the best bits of the ICC profile (like gamma corrections).
And as to the overdrive issue. Well, as it happens the overdrive control of the monitor is quite poor by AOC's standards. Even using the 'Weak' setting there is a fair degree of overshoot. Obviously this is at 60Hz and if it did work at 144Hz, correctly, then it may not have this issue. Oh and don't get me started on these new 'Gaming' features such as the 'Game Mode' settings and 'Shadow Control'. They are utter tripe.
The 'tricks' I was referring to unfortunately don't alleviate this. If you use 'BrightFrame' and set the frame size to '100' you can manually adjust the gamma on some models by changing the brightness and contrast from there (this is digital brightness and not the same as the usual brightness control of the monitor). I will be able to improve things with an ICC profile, no doubt, but this isn't ideal as some games don't use this and trying to enforce it with a utility can cause further issues. And inter-unit variation etc. Still, it's one of those monitors where this would seem to be beneficial regardless. And most modern games offer a 'Borderless Fullscreen' option that will certainly use the best bits of the ICC profile (like gamma corrections).
And as to the overdrive issue. Well, as it happens the overdrive control of the monitor is quite poor by AOC's standards. Even using the 'Weak' setting there is a fair degree of overshoot. Obviously this is at 60Hz and if it did work at 144Hz, correctly, then it may not have this issue. Oh and don't get me started on these new 'Gaming' features such as the 'Game Mode' settings and 'Shadow Control'. They are utter tripe.
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My first impressions of the monitor aren't particularly favourable at the moment. I've not really had a chance to look at things in depth, but a few observations are as follows. It has a refresh rate dependent gamma curve, which is something I've seen on several 24" 144Hz models in the past. It essentially means the gamma is too low and things look hazy (washed out) at 144Hz. Try lowering the refresh rate to 60Hz and you'll see the difference.
The 'tricks' I was referring to unfortunately don't alleviate this. If you use 'BrightFrame' and set the frame size to '100' you can manually adjust the gamma on some models by changing the brightness and contrast from there (this is digital brightness and not the same as the usual brightness control of the monitor). I will be able to improve things with an ICC profile, no doubt, but this isn't ideal as some games don't use this and trying to enforce it with a utility can cause further issues. And inter-unit variation etc. Still, it's one of those monitors where this would seem to be beneficial regardless. And most modern games offer a 'Borderless Fullscreen' option that will certainly use the best bits of the ICC profile (like gamma corrections).
And as to the overdrive issue. Well, as it happens the overdrive control of the monitor is quite poor by AOC's standards. Even using the 'Weak' setting there is a fair degree of overshoot. Obviously this is at 60Hz and if it did work at 144Hz, correctly, then it may not have this issue. Oh and don't get me started on these new 'Gaming' features such as the 'Game Mode' settings and 'Shadow Control'. They are utter tripe.
question is, is the overdrive not working at 120/144hz an issue? or intended and if it is an issue is it fixable. finally if it is fixable, is that going to require sending to aoc/ocuk for a firmware update?
i would imagine it should be working at all ranges.
It would be an issue for some users but not others, depending on individual sensitivity. You should find the assessment in my upcoming review helpful. It is not working as intended according to the initial response from AOC's PM simply saying "this should not be the case". Obviously it is the case and is something they will have to look into. You'll have to sit tight for further updates.
The rules at your end, as a potentially unsatisfied consumer, are much the same. They now fall under CCR (Consumer Contract Regulations) which allows return for any reason if you notify the retailer within 14 working days.
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Thank you, i will keep following.
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Thanks PCM - we really appreciate your observations and assistance with this.
I can definitely agree with the refresh-dependent gamma - when the monitor first booted at 60hz, it did look OK - upon activating 144hz, the quality took a nose-dive.
I tried the overdrive at 60hz and I agree - a lot of overshoot can be observed (like it wasn't designed for 60hz use).
The ghosting at 144hz (presumably without overdrive) is not terrible but why would we tolerate this when it is being sold as a 1ms gtg screen and the image quality is pretty bad?
I'm going to sit it out until near my 14 days and if there is no sign of an overdrive fix (and possible a serious gamma tweak) in a firmware, I'm afraid this will have to be a return.
Very disappointed - I waited months and scoured for news all over the place frequently for updates; I really thought this would be the AMD equivalent to the G2460PG but unfortunately it is not at the moment
I can definitely agree with the refresh-dependent gamma - when the monitor first booted at 60hz, it did look OK - upon activating 144hz, the quality took a nose-dive.
I tried the overdrive at 60hz and I agree - a lot of overshoot can be observed (like it wasn't designed for 60hz use).
The ghosting at 144hz (presumably without overdrive) is not terrible but why would we tolerate this when it is being sold as a 1ms gtg screen and the image quality is pretty bad?
I'm going to sit it out until near my 14 days and if there is no sign of an overdrive fix (and possible a serious gamma tweak) in a firmware, I'm afraid this will have to be a return.
Very disappointed - I waited months and scoured for news all over the place frequently for updates; I really thought this would be the AMD equivalent to the G2460PG but unfortunately it is not at the moment
Thanks PCM - we really appreciate your observations and assistance with this.
I can definitely agree with the refresh-dependent gamma - when the monitor first booted at 60hz, it did look OK - upon activating 144hz, the quality took a nose-dive.
I tried the overdrive at 60hz and I agree - a lot of overshoot can be observed (like it wasn't designed for 60hz use).
The ghosting at 144hz (presumably without overdrive) is not terrible but why would we tolerate this when it is being sold as a 1ms gtg screen and the image quality is pretty bad?
I'm going to sit it out until near my 14 days and if there is no sign of an overdrive fix (and possible a serious gamma tweak) in a firmware, I'm afraid this will have to be a return.
Very disappointed - I waited months and scoured for news all over the place frequently for updates; I really thought this would be the AMD equivalent to the G2460PG but unfortunately it is not at the moment
I can't help you with the overdrive fix at the moment, but if you PM me (or contact via my website) I have something I'd like you to try.
Hi Henson, I am the one who made that post on Reddit. Before making that post, I also made this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3lxx86/is_my_freesync_monitor_working_correctly/
I've put a fair bit of information there and would appreciate some input. The main thing I was questioning was the FreeSync range. I've determined that it works at high refresh rates, but do not know if it's working as low as 30Hz. The main issue I'm having is that I do not know what it would even look like at 30Hz, and cannot spot any differences in my games with FS on or off at such low frame rates - making matters worse, I cannot find any documentation to explain it either, and my reddit posts have had little success in helping.
I've also noticed ghosting at 144Hz on the AMD windmill FreeSync demo, and also believe I am noticing ghosting in my games. Right now, I plan to return this monitor before my 14-day limit expires. AOC does not even have a customer support phone line so there is no chance I am getting stuck dealing with them.
As of two days ago, my impressions are that this monitor is cheaply built, as the price tag would indicate. I don't think I'm prepared to deal with the trade-offs.
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stupid question, but can you not turn on ddc/ci in the osd and adjust the gamma in AMD's ccc - 'Display Color (Digital Flat-Panel)section, it seems to work for me. i just go by how it looks to me on screen, but by no means a color expert.
Hi Liam, i did also see that post you made regarding testing at lower ranges. i will see if i can test at 30hz. i would say you shouldn't see any tearing or juddering?
In regards to the ghosting, yes i spotted this at 144hz/120hz with the Freesync Windmill test. however believe this should be less severe/removed with an overdrive feature. for which we are currently missing at higher refresh rates..
At such low frame rates, I did not notice any tearing, however the camera movement was just horrible and the games I tested were quite unresponsive, especially compared to the 100+ FPS I was seeing before limiting them. It was quite difficult to tell what I was seeing really, as I think juddery would describe it.
Yes, I think overdrive is definitely needed. I just don't have much confidence in AOC at the moment. I don't think I had heard of them before seeing this monitor, and assumed right away that it may have issues. Unfortunately it seems I was right.
You can adjust gamma on the GPU, yes. But DDC/CI has nothing to do with it as it does not influence the monitor settings. You can only shift the gamma curve left or right, you can't fine-tune it. A better way of doing that would be with an ICC profile, that I will be providing and discussing in the review. It isn't just the case that the gamma is too low and that's the only 'imperfection' on this one, there's certainly more that can be improved.
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i see, that makes sense and the profile is only usable with borderless fullscreen?
In regards to my earlier comments about display corruption in MGSTPP:
Fullscreen + FreeSync= corruption
Fullscreen without FreeSync= No corruption
borderless fullscreen + FreeSync= No corruption
borderless without FreeSync= No corruption
Not exclusively. But it will always 'work' in borderless windowed mode. It will also apply gamma correction etc. on some games in normal fullscreen.
Another thing I could find no information on - I guessed FS only works in fullscreen. Is this the case?
Borderless fullscreen must actually be a window, which I assume FS will not work with. Is there any knowledge of how this works?
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what games have you tried? it seems ok for me in MGSTPP at 30fps, also what is your setup? i am going to try the witcher 3 next.
Actually that is an excellent point Liam. FreeSync only works in exclusive fullscreen mode. It does not work in borderless windowed mode or any other sort of window. So there goes the ease of applying ICC profiles.
I might need you guys to do some little tests for me to work out which titles will actually use the ICC profile gamma correction in exclusive fullscreen mode.
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