Ashes thread - England vs Australia * SPOILERS *

Spawn said:
Also dont forget that Watson, the Aussie all rounder hasnt even figured in any of the Test matches...guess thats a relief for the English as hes pretty devastating with the bat and ball...much better than Flintoff imho.
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Didn't see much of the champions trophy, last I saw of him was when Pietersen was smacking him around the rose bowl. How can he be compared to flintoff yet when hes played 3 test matches. Even with his bad ankle Flintoff is 8th ranked bowler in the world and 2nd raked all rounder and that isn't by fluke.

Watson has played 4 innings with a high score of 31 and a "devastating" strike rate of 38 (averages less than Ashley Giles). If hes devastating then Ian Bell at 50 strike rate is the next Afridi.

With the ball hes got a nice average of 60 odd. Even in ODI's where he's played more games his average is 31 compared to Freddie's 26. His batting average is also lower than Freddie's in ODI's too and Freddie's been playing in one of the worst ODI teams in the world.

He is a decent player and might turn out to be quite a useful player but to start saying he's much better than Flintoff is wishful thinking. If he was then he'd already be a permanent member of the Australian side.
 
platty said:
He is a decent player and might turn out to be quite a useful player but to start saying he's much better than Flintoff is wishful thinking. If he was then he'd already be a permanent member of the Australian side.
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Agreed. Flintoff is a terrific all-rounder, who is having a horrible series so far. It was bound to happen eventually. The man has ressuructed so matches, I'm sometimes think he is some kind a miracle worker. The big question is, however, how will England cope when Flintoff is not performing? From this series it seems that we fall apart.

Watson is also a great all-rounder, but I wouldn't even put him in the same league as Flintoff. However, there is no doubt that the man has potential, and he may just get there.
 
Its probably Watsons first class stats that are the basis for claims that hes better than flintoff. Averages 49 batting and 30 bowling. Pretty good. Maybe he just bottles it internationally like Ramprakash. :p
 
Rosbif said:
Its probably Watsons first class stats that are the basis for claims that hes better than flintoff. Averages 49 batting and 30 bowling. Pretty good. Maybe he just bottles it internationally like Ramprakash. :p
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Watson has the potential to be as good as flintoff, it took flintoff a considerable time in test cricket to become the player he is today, and over time i think watson will mature into a very handy player at least and possibly better.
 
ODI team announced.

James Anderson (Lancashire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Paul Collingwood (Durham), James Dalrymple (Middlesex), Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire), Ed Joyce (Middlesex), Jon Lewis (Gloucestershire), Sajid Mahmood (Lancashire), Paul Nixon (Leicestershire), Monty Panesar (Northamptonshire), Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire), Liam Plunkett (Durham), Chris Read (Nottinghamshire), Andrew Strauss (Middlesex), Chris Tremlett (Hampshire), Michael Vaughan (Yorkshire)

Harmison has retired from ODI's.

Shame not to see Stuart Broad in there, Tremlett and Plunkett get in ahead of him unless he's injured.

Panesar included now they realized he's not as bad with that bat as they'd been saying.

Vaughan back.

Jones dropped which is good, hopefully signaling he's been dropped for the fourth and fifth tests too.

Don't know why cook isn't in the squad. In the two ODI's he's played hes scored 39 from 38 balls and 41 off 54 balls which is decent IMO.
 
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A bit off topic ... sort of...

but has anyone played stick cricket on stickcricket.com....?

its awesome, just wondered if anyone has set any tournaments or leagues i can join
 
platty said:
Tryna get him match fit for the world cup would be my guess, nobody cares too much about the ODI's.
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Thats what I suspected. If thats the case he should play First class to get match fit. Its an outrage that England internationals are used to get players fit. I think it just highlights that there is no winning mentality in the England setup and that they have a contempt and disrespect for the game. Thinking you can pick and choose what games you win is what losers do. Winners win consistently, because its habitual, they dont lose a strings of matches and have inconsistent spells 'getting match fit' and then suddenly turn up on the day and win the big competition. The England team is forever living in the future. :mad:
 
Well he has been playing for the Academy for a month now really in Australia plus fitness work before that so maybe they feel its time he got some proper games under his belt.

On another note Pietersen is now up to 3rd in the world batting rankings, only Poniting and Yousuf are ahead of him. 2nd in the ODI rankings too behind Hussey which is good considering he's playing in a shocking team. Just showing he's easily our best player.

For all the hassle selectors are rightly getting at the moment their decision to select him last year was great.
 
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platty said:
Well he has been playing for the Academy for a month now really in Australia plus fitness work before that so maybe they feel its time he got some proper games under his belt.

On another note Pietersen is now up to 3rd in the world batting rankings, only Poniting and Yousuf are ahead of him. 2nd in the ODI rankings too behind Hussey which is good considering he's playing in a shocking team. Just showing he's easily our best player.

For all the hassle selectors are rightly getting at the moment their decision to select him last year was great.
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Indeed hes an excellent batsman, would be better if he learned to be a bit more patient with the bat instead of trying to hit every bowler out of the ground.
But hes definitely been your only bright spark so far...
 
It's official, Glenn McGrath will retire after the World Cup next year, that'll leave their bowling attack a bit short.

He was a brilliant bowler as well and caused us much grief over the years, yet another sigh of relief.
 
To me he is the best bowler in the history of the game, Warne was more charismatic and more of an entertainer but McGrath was always top dog. You look at his record, every country he has faced the batsman are made to suffer. I can make a pretty damn long list of great batsman who have struggled badly against him. His style was so simple yet so devastating. Players could move the ball more sideways off the seam than him, swing it more than him, bowl faster than him but none of them were as accurate and his pitch graphs just show how accurate he was. Always a concentrated area where he would keep putting the ball and eventually the player would succumb to pressure. As he didn't rely so heavily on things like pace, swing or seam movement he was able to do so well in the Asian countries as that is where most pace bowlers struggle as the pitch offers nothing to them. But McGrath would find his line and length early and keep putting the ball there and players would not know how to handle that. His performances and Lord's are legendary and he played a huge role in the Aussies being able to dominate world cricket for so long. Because to this date even though many batsman have had their moments against him none have mastered how to play him.

You always felt with McGrath and Warne that the worse the Aussie batsman played the better those two got, when they were up against it they used to propel themselves onto a new level. Especially McGrath who used to always used to leave a big dent in the top order and Warne would clean up and take out any top order batsman who dared to resist.

With those two going it is a huge chunk of the Aussie team that has gone, their loss will be felt for years to come. I don't care how good their up and coming players are but none will go on to match those two and very few players will be able to perform so consistently in the big matches like these two did. Even though I've been waiting for this day to come for years I can't help but feel sad that such two great players will be gone. There have been some great bowling partnerships in cricket, many from the W.Indies, Lillee and Thompson, Waqar and Wasim, Donald and Pollock and the list goes up but these two formed imo the most devastating and helped their team to dominate for over a decade in world cricket. It has been a privilege to watch them all these years and I'm sure I won't be the only one telling generations to come how great those two were.
 
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I think platty will be fuming when he finds out his favourite wicket keeper Jones has been dropped, him and Big Kev ;)
 
Suppose it's better late than never but it's still taken them 3 matches too long to pick the players everyone bar Fletcher & Flintoff knew should have been in from the start Reed & Panesar.

Why Geraint Jones got back in the team god knows, he was dropped due to dismal batting which hasnt improved Reed got brought in against Pakistan scored a half century (Jones might have scored 50 in the last ten games together maybe) then got dropped because of a few poor one day innings! Same as Monty it appears if you're not in the clique in the England team then you soon get dropped. No doubt if Reed doesnt get 10 catches and 2 50's in this game then Jones will be back in again :p

Edit: England win the toss and are going to bat.
 
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I'm going to stick up for Jones here, no surprise with me being a Kent fan ;) , Read doesn't have a great batting record for England either, so I don't really see much difference between the two, anyway, that doesn't matter now, I just hope he justifies the decision.

I can't see us winning, but even a wash out would do me. :)

I also hope that Warne doesn't get all of the attention and people remember that the worlds greatest pace bowler, with regards number of wickets, is also retiring.

One last thing, I also think that Murali is being ignored too much as well, as it won't be too long before he overtakes Warne.
 
Murali will always have the accusations of being a chucker though no matter if he gets 700-800 or 900 wickets, not saying thats right or wrong but it's true thats why he isnt regarded nor ever will be in the same way as Warne.

Mcgrath will get his own proper send off at the end of the world cup as I expect Australia to be there or there abouts at the end.
 
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