Belgian Grand Prix 2014, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 12/19

smr said:
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...ed-by-critical-moments-in-hungary-and-bahrain

Most well written article on the subject I've read, from Mark Hughes....

In short it (and all Hamilton fans should read this) it reads;

Lap 52 of the Bahrain Grand Prix in April: Nico Rosberg was trying to pass Lewis Hamilton around the outside of Turn Four. What happened in the following moment was at the root of their clash in Spa last weekend.

Context is everything and what Rosberg did on lap two at Spa last weekend was not judged as such. He declined to surrender a place that, conventionally, he had already failed to make work – once into the corner his front wheels were never any further forward than level with the front of Hamilton’s sidepod. But he’s not obliged by any regulation to surrender at this point. He’s perfectly entitled to attempt to bully the guy ahead out of the way by leaving the nose of his car there. To suggest it was a deliberate attempt at puncturing Hamilton’s tyre is ludicrous - as Sky F1’s Martin Brundle later pointed out: “The chances of puncturing the other guy’s tyre if you hit him from behind: about 30%. The chances of damaging your own front wing: 100%,” – but to effectively place the decision of contact in Hamilton’s hands is not necessarily dangerous; it’s just racing. Hard and resolute, ruthless even. But not necessarily dangerous and therefore not necessarily worthy of a penalty.
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i agree with this post


i must balance this out by also saying that JB lucked into his WDC in a super amazing 2 years in the making Honda chasis with a Brawn GP sticker slapped on the side :p

but then the best car is always more important than the best driver
for me ..as an average driver in the best car with an average team mate you have a very very good chance of beating the best driver on the grid in any other car
and a 50:50 chance of beating you team mate..RB and JB

and.. thats the problem with 'the best driver' we all know in any particular year you can only compare to your team mate
there are so many variables and lack of consistency in F1 plus the time variable (as in cars evolving, loss of personnel, getting older) there is no point looking at WDC or any 'numbers' to classify best
and here lies the ability for eqch person to argue there case

short of saying maldanado is one of the worst and alonso is one of the best it is hard to argue a particular point at best to worst. its almost like an atheist arguing with a religious person. you have so many 'arguments' you can choose to make you end up with a circle and the inability to properly contest it

driver X had a DNF here, driver Y won this really wet race, JB had an unbalanced car (whoops, supposed to be Z) :p
 
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dannyjo22 said:
It will be Defcon 5 and you know it
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So equivalent to peace-time then? DefCon 1 is what you need to worry about! ;)

Too many posts I'd love to quote, so I'll say my thoughts on a few things that have been discussed:

Schumacher's 1994 Title: Grudgingly deserved. A car of dubious legality (launch control, traction control, fuel valve etc) and some dubious behaviour (Silverstone parade lap) but did the most consistent job over the year. Hill was only let back in with a chance of the title by Schumacher's mid-season ban, and really shouldn't have been suckered into trying to overtake at Adelaide.

1997: The Williams car was superior at the start of the season, but their star was on the wane. The F310 was far better than the '96 car, but was probably the third best car. Schumacher was also hampered by the rise and rise of McLaren, whose unreliability only stopped them from winning more races.

Hamilton/Massa 2008: The Ferrari was the faster car, but perhaps the McLaren the more consistent. Massa should have won it, and would have but for his blow-up within sight of the flag in Hungary. To say Glock deliberately slowed in Brazil is laughable; he was on slicks on a increasingly wet track. You can see him struggling to get the power down out of Junção after being passed by Hamilton. Some great drives by both drivers and a brilliant season.

Button 2009: Yes the Brawn was a tour de force at the beginning of the season, but as early as Malaysia the Red Bulls were very close; Button arguably only won in Turkey because Vettel went wide at Turn 9. Button had already shown his class in 2004 with BAR, being 'best of the rest' and in the second-half of 2006, scoring more points than any other driver in the final six rounds. Surely the purgatory of 2007 and 2008 at Honda meant 2009 was at least partly deserved? As others have said, Brawn had no cash to develop the car and got caught and overtaken by Red Bull and McLaren, and Button did a good rearguard action to hold on.

2012: Hamilton should have won the title. The car was fast enough, just far too unreliable. Few can blame him for jumping ship to Mercedes after that.

Spa 2014: I'm not 100% convinced Rosberg deliberately cut Hamilton's tyre, but then again I'm not 100% sure he didn't... Since the introduction of the wider 'snow plough' wings in 2009, with sculpted end-plates rather than the flat ones of before, the instances of rear tyres being 'cut' by front wings have gone up dramatically; Rubens' tyre was accidentally cut by Hamilton at Interlagos 2009 during an overtake, scuppering any lingering title hopes. Rosberg certainly is not as skilled at wheel-to-wheel racing as Lewis, so I'm inclined to say it was more clumsy than malicious, although his 'point to prove' is evident by leaving his wing there to be clipped. This whole new rule about having to leave room if the driver behind has his nose as much as alongside your rear wheels is a farce though...
 
So if I have my facts straight Rosberg did what he did in Spa because he is in a huff about Lewis being too aggressive (I remember the radio message). He is also not happy about Hungary despite saying what Lewis did was fine because its up to him to have his car alongside the guy infront.

So he has forgotten about the chop he Gave Lewis at the start of the Canadian grand prix and running him off the road in Bahrain in 2012. He also forgets that Lewis is also not buying the Monaco qualifying and Canadian chicane incident.

I don't understand what point he was trying to make when he has been equally as aggressive in the past.
 
IPBA said:
So if I have my facts straight Rosberg did what he did in Spa because he is in a huff about Lewis being too aggressive (I remember the radio message). He is also not happy about Hungary despite saying what Lewis did was fine because its up to him to have his car alongside the guy infront.

So he has forgotten about the chop he Gave Lewis at the start of the Canadian grand prix and running him off the road in Bahrain in 2012. He also forgets that Lewis is also not buying the Monaco qualifying and Canadian chicane incident.

I don't understand what point he was trying to make when he has been equally as aggressive in the past.
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Man it's funny when you spell it out like that how much Rosberg has gotten away with this season. Always when hes about to lose a place he seems to resolve to being a bit dirty.
 
IPBA said:
So if I have my facts straight Rosberg did what he did in Spa because he is in a huff about Lewis being too aggressive (I remember the radio message). He is also not happy about Hungary despite saying what Lewis did was fine because its up to him to have his car alongside the guy infront.

So he has forgotten about the chop he Gave Lewis at the start of the Canadian grand prix and running him off the road in Bahrain in 2012. He also forgets that Lewis is also not buying the Monaco qualifying and Canadian chicane incident.

I don't understand what point he was trying to make when he has been equally as aggressive in the past.
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Yup, and don't forget that at Bahrain(iirc) he decided to brake late and slam it up the inside and at least once you can see Hamilton move over to make sure he doesn't hit Rosberg. As in Rosberg slammed it up the inside knowing that a less reckless driver wouldn't just turn in on him, he did however see it coming and get him back up the inside each time.

As you say as well he shoved him off the track at the first corner, Hamilton both was slightly ahead of Rosberg going into the braking zone but on the outside(where as Rosberg was noticeably behind as they hit the braking zone in Spa), he was further alongside through the corner and past the apex and ended up further off track and this is in the first corner where Hamilton was at serious risk from the cars behind.

Rosberg had much less room to overtake, was further back, had no chance, and due to being a bit later and a much larger gap behind was at no risk to simply back out and follow behind.

The thing is, Hamilton didn't get mad about that or even mention it, he didn't mention it at bahrain when Rosberg flew up the inside risking both cars where Hamilton sensibly pulled away and left room. Hamilton also didn't complain when Rosberg apparently used a higher engine mode than he should in a previous race while Rosberg threw that out the second Hamilton did it at a later race(when Rosberg also did that).

Then you've got the things like Rosberg cutting the corner to stay ahead of Hamilton, something Alonso also got away with, though he at least seemed to lift(though holding your hands up doesn't really prove that), either way he gained a large advantage also.

Rosberg has been a pratt all year long, whining about Hamilton beating him while ignoring all the dodgy crap he did himself. He's cheated at several races while also jumping down Hamilton's throat for perceived issues. IE not dropping 2 seconds to let him pass which EVERYONE apart from Rosberg realises was insane. It's okay for Rosberg to push Hamilton off the track, cheat and cut a corner when under threat and dive up the inside forcing Hamilton to avoid him... but Hamilton does the same move and it angers him to the point that the next time he smashes into him?

I can't remember where I read it either but I was reminded of a comment Hamilton made after Monaco, along the lines of "if you'd seen what I'd seen", in reference to Rosberg going off(or coming back on, something), no idea what it is but the impression was "I know he did it, if you'd seen what I'd seen... you'd agree without doubt". Rosberg probably flipped him the bird as Hamilton drove pass as he was reversing :p
 
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JonnyT said:
Button 2009: Yes the Brawn was a tour de force at the beginning of the season, but as early as Malaysia the Red Bulls were very close; Button arguably only won in Turkey because Vettel went wide at Turn 9. Button had already shown his class in 2004 with BAR, being 'best of the rest' and in the second-half of 2006, scoring more points than any other driver in the final six rounds. Surely the purgatory of 2007 and 2008 at Honda meant 2009 was at least partly deserved? As others have said, Brawn had no cash to develop the car and got caught and overtaken by Red Bull and McLaren, and Button did a good rearguard action to hold on.
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So true, it seems people look at the start of the season and forget that by the end they were far from the fastest car and Button's experience of dragging the dogs around in 2007/2008 made him one of the few drivers who could manage that situation!
 
chriscatt said:
I am up for adult debates that show knowledge of the sport
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Those days are long gone here. Even if there is serious sensible discussion going on, it's impossible to spot it through the sea of trolling and stirring.

This place is a good source of collated news as there are people regularly reading a lot if sources, but beyond that its become a pre school of one-upmanship.
 
We are convinced that we found that object hanging off Nico's radio when strolling round the track. This long string of tyre :p

5IAZOc84

Ma4sTci9
 
I thought it was terribly amusing that out of everyone in the field it was Nico who happenned to get the junk from the accident he caused stuck flapping in his face.

Would have been even better if it had made him crash though (without injury obviously).
 
Baboonanza said:
I thought it was terribly amusing that out of everyone in the field it was Nico who happenned to get the junk from the accident he caused stuck flapping in his face.

Would have been even better if it had made him crash though (without injury obviously).
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I thought it came off a Force India when he was overtaking?
 
It's highly likely it was from Bianchi's tyre from the start of the race and the Force India just flicked it up.

It's possible it was Hamilton's tyre and had been dragged around to the Kemmel straight by another car, but it's most likely from Bianchi's tyre.
 
JonnyT said:
Schumacher's 1994 Title: Grudgingly deserved. A car of dubious legality (launch control, traction control, fuel valve etc) and some dubious behaviour (Silverstone parade lap) but did the most consistent job over the year. Hill was only let back in with a chance of the title by Schumacher's mid-season ban, and really shouldn't have been suckered into trying to overtake at Adelaide.
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God, I hate it when people throw up this argument. "Hill only had a chance to win because Schumacher was banned for cheating, and only lost because Schumacher cheated again, so Schumacher deserved the title!"

Hill was not "suckered into overtaking". Schumacher was off the track and rejoining in a manner that would cause a collision was illegal. He should have been disqualified from the race, and given the circumstances and the reason for doing it he should also have been excluded from the WDC.
 
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