Boeing 777 shot down

[ubersonic]

If this was an SA-17 type Buk launcher it is able to detect transponders and determine if it was a civilian aircraft. Reports so far say it was this type so this rules out auto-mode being used, it also strongly suggests the operator was not fully trained.

The SA-17 wasn't developed until long after the fall of the USSR, IIRC Ukraine only has SA-11 systems, mostly Buk and a few Buk-M1.

 

[woofercooker]

In an ideal world this tragedy would prompt both sides to end the conflict peacefully. Sadly the reality will be months of blame being used politically while the fighting continues.

Real chit. Sadly most people have the same mentality in life its self. Too many people walking around bitter and twisted blaming everybody else.

 

[delta0]

The SA-17 wasn't developed until long after the fall of the USSR, IIRC Ukraine only has SA-11 systems, mostly Buk and a few Buk-M1.

Quite a few sources say other countries including Ukraine have it. http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2710774

 

[Freefaller]

No, the most likely scenario is they simply didn't realise it was a passenger plane. Ref the 'Christmas tree' - It was day time!

They're likely not experienced/we'll trained - that's all... operating the kit itself likely isn't too complicated.

Given the US navy managed to make the same mistake with an Iranian airliner it's very plausible that one of the rag tag bunch of fighters did this without realising they were shooting a passenger plane.

I think he meant in terms of visibility on radar not actually "being visible to the naked eye" - a military plane surely would be using countermeasures to avoid radar contact no?

The latter part I can't disagree with, I fear it was all a big mistake done by some thugs who mistook the air craft. It's tragic, and such a waste of life - but I don't get why either side Russian or Ukrainian would gain from shooting down a passenger plane, or indeed a plane irrespective of what type it is - all it's going to do is stir trouble for what? Absolutely nothing.,

 

[do_ron_ron]

Usual load of overclocker overreaction. So far all that can be truthfully be said is that an airliner came down in the Ukraine. Given that another of this country's airlines was hijacked/crew deliberately took it off course and crashed, why has this angle been ruled out?

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Usual load of overclocker overreaction. So far all that can be truthfully be said is that an airliner came down in the Ukraine. Given that another of this country's airlines was hijacked/crew deliberately took it off course and crashed, why has this angle been ruled out?

I believe USA intelligence has confirmed it was definitely shot down........(??)

They just dont know where the missile originated from.

 

[Robbo]

Usual load of overclocker overreaction. So far all that can be truthfully be said is that an airliner came down in the Ukraine. Given that another of this country's airlines was hijacked/crew deliberately took it off course and crashed, why has this angle been ruled out?

Because it's been confirmed as shot down...

 

[Fireskull]

Usual load of overclocker overreaction. So far all that can be truthfully be said is that an airliner came down in the Ukraine. Given that another of this country's airlines was hijacked/crew deliberately took it off course and crashed, why has this angle been ruled out?

Lol because that was confirmed too?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I hope the Russians don't try to sneak in and take the black box.

Unless it was an error, I don't see why the Ukranians would shoot it down? The rebels have no such hardware at the moment?

Do we know if the teams are now being allowed access to the site by th rebels?

Terrible situation and of course, Malaysian Airlines again...I feel bad for them tbh...obviously not as bad as for the families and friends affected.

 

[ubersonic]

Unless it was an error, I don't see why the Ukranians would shoot it down? The rebels have no such hardware at the moment?

Do we know if the teams are now being allowed access to the site by th rebels?

You can answer those questions yourself, by reading the thread they seem to get asked/answered every couple of pages

 

[The Running Man]

Guilty!

 

[scorza]

I hope the Russians don't try to sneak in and take the black box.

Unless it was an error, I don't see why the Ukranians would shoot it down? The rebels have no such hardware at the moment?

Do we know if the teams are now being allowed access to the site by th rebels?

Terrible situation and of course, Malaysian Airlines again...I feel bad for them tbh...obviously not as bad as for the families and friends affected.

I read earlier in the Guardian that two black boxes have been found (are there more black boxes or is it just two) and are on their way to Russian Secret Police (FSB) HQ, which if it turns out to be true is a massive breach of international protocol concerning the handling of air disasters.

 

[snips86x]

You can answer those questions yourself, by reading the thread they seem to get asked/answered every couple of pages

and the BBC live feed!

I read earlier in the Guardian that two black boxes have been found (are there more black boxes or is it just two) and are on their way to Russian Secret Police (FSB) HQ, which if it turns out to be true is a massive breach of international protocol concerning the handling of air disasters.

I seriously hope this isn't true!

 

[BuffetSlayer]

I read earlier in the Guardian that two black boxes have been found (are there more black boxes or is it just two) and are on their way to Russian Secret Police (FSB) HQ, which if it turns out to be true is a massive breach of international protocol concerning the handling of air disasters.

I believe there are generally two.

The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.

But I could be wrong.

 

[XeNoN89]

I hope the Russians don't try to sneak in and take the black box.

Unless it was an error, I don't see why the Ukranians would shoot it down? The rebels have no such hardware at the moment?

Do we know if the teams are now being allowed access to the site by th rebels?

Terrible situation and of course, Malaysian Airlines again...I feel bad for them tbh...obviously not as bad as for the families and friends affected.

BBC earlier were saying the black box was found by rebels and sent to Moscow...

 

[bloodiedathame]

And to echo a comment made earlier, there isn't a great deal that the Russians can do with the black boxes other than destroy them, they won't have the required tools to decrypt the data they hold. *This needs verifying

 

[deanolfc]

The Ukrainian US/EU /Nato puppet president almost immediately came out and blamed the rebels, The western regime media came out and blamed Russia, john war mongering McCain said 'There's going to be hell to pay and there should be!': John McCain warns of 'incredible repercussions' if Russian forces or pro-Russian separatists downed MH17, I wonder if it turns out to be Ukraine will there be hell to pay then.

 

[Zethor]

I believe the second black box was found by the investigators so it doesn't matter what the Russians do with the first one.

The Ukrainian US/EU /Nato puppet president almost immediately came out and blamed the rebels, The western regime media came out and blamed Russia, john war mongering McCain said 'There's going to be hell to pay and there should be!': John McCain warns of 'incredible repercussions' if Russian forces or pro-Russian separatists downed MH17, I wonder if it turns out to be Ukraine will there be hell to pay then.

The evidence that points towards the rebels is undeniable. Twitter post by their leader about downing a plane, phone call in which they admit doing it and identify the group that did it, the weapon capable of taking down the plane was known to be in rebel hands since June. The western media just follow the evidence, unlike RT who claimed the Ukrainians did it as they tried to destroy Putin's plane.

 

[Devlish]

And to echo a comment made earlier, there isn't a great deal that the Russians can do with the black boxes other than destroy them, they won't have the required tools to decrypt the data they hold.

unfortunately, there was no data on the boxes comrades... not that it would make much of a difference, us intelligence has confirmed a missile, they just dont know if it was from eastern ukraine or russia. The black boxes will only rule out mechanical fault which it pretty obviously was not.

 

[ubersonic]

I read earlier in the Guardian that two black boxes have been found (are there more black boxes or is it just two) and are on their way to Russian Secret Police (FSB) HQ, which if it turns out to be true is a massive breach of international protocol concerning the handling of air disasters.

Technically speaking, it actually isn't. When a plane comes down the investigation is usually undertaken by the authorities in the area it comes down, or if they lack the resources they can request assistance from outside air investigation organisations or defer it completely.

It just so happens that as it came down in a war zone the authority in the region are the separatists that control that region, and if they have elected to request assistance from or defer the investigation to the Interstate Aviation Committee (Russian air accident investigation) then that is actually in keeping with international protocol.

And to echo a comment made earlier, there isn't a great deal that the Russians can do with the black boxes other than destroy them, they won't have the required tools to decrypt the data they hold. *This needs verifying

They didn't have the ability to read the tapes back in the 80's, that may have changed since then (as Boeing aircraft are now flown by Russian airlines).

The evidence that points towards the rebels is undeniable.

This, the only real question is if it was an accident or intentional.