Boeing 777 shot down

There are no such things as accidents, only mistakes.

Is that the HSE in you...?;)

Either way, point still stands. There should very different outcomes depending on whether the rebels (assuming it was them) purposely shot it down, set the machine to "auto", or more likely misidentified it as a military plane and shot it down by mistake.
 
Lol, if you find that scary, the transponder of the Iranian airliner the US navy shot down was identifying itself as a commercial airliner, the Navy Captain decided to shoot it down anyway because he figured just because it said it wasn't military didn't make it non-military >.>

In addition didn't they broadcast their demand for ID and their warnings on military and not civil channels? You think they would have tried both before, you know, shooting the thing down.
 
We'll they can fly low...

But no I don't see why a local radar system being operated by some rebels is going to distinguish between a military transport plane and an airliner. That's the main thing - they're operating this thing in relative isolation, no command and control... no liaising with air traffic control etc...

Fair enough - I'm just surprised that this sort of thing happens in this day and age. If only there were failsafes to prevent non military aircraft from being targeted... but then I guess they'd fit those failsafes to all planes.

I would have just thought that you'd be 100% sure on your target before pushing the button.

From my office in Canary Wharf, I can see so many planes flying in and out of City airport and over London - the thought that someone could knock one of these planes out of the sky "for no reason" sends a very strong chill down my spine.
 
News just showed a video of what was purported to be a missile launcher with missiles missing heading towards the Russian border.

So if you take it as read that the separatists shot the plane down then the next question is where the system came from and how involved Russia is. If the rebels got it from a captured Ukranian base then Russia can deny all involvement and blame the separatists for being incompetent, although they'll have to swallow their earlier comments accusing the Ukranians of doing it. If the Prosecutor General's comments in the BBC article denying the separatists have any of the Ukranian systems is right then the system probably came from Russia, in which case the Russian government is going to look complicit for handing out serious hardware and not being too bothered about the people using it.
 
Wow you come up with some ****. The vincenz had been engaging iranian gunboats and was in iranian waters when it thought it was being attacked by a tomcat. The radar operator interpreted the radar type wrongly, as military rather than civilian. When no response was made to challenges they shot. No doubt another tragedy but there were many things that went wrong that caused it.

It was also flying on a well know flight path,and it was taking off not descending to attack the warship.

On top of this the crew of the ship after the shoot down got medals when they got back to the US for successfully completing a tour of duty.

The plane, an Airbus A300B2, registered as EP-IBU and flown by Captain Mohsen Rezaian, a veteran pilot with 7,000 hours of flight time, left Bandar Abbas at 10:17 am Iran time (UTC +03:30), 27 minutes after its scheduled departure time. It should have been a 28-minute flight. After takeoff, it was directed by the Bandar Abbas tower to turn on its transponder and proceed over the Persian Gulf. The flight was assigned routinely to commercial air corridor Amber 59, a twenty-mile (32 km)-wide lane on a direct line to Dubai airport. The short distance made for a simple flight pattern: climb to 14,000 feet (4,300 m), cruise for a short time, and descend into Dubai. The airliner was transmitting the correct transponder "squawk" code typical of a civilian aircraft and maintained English-speaking radio contact with appropriate air traffic control facilities.
Aegis screen displays on Ticonderoga-class cruiser USS Vincennes

On the morning of 3 July, the Vincennes was passing through the Strait of Hormuz returning from an escort duty.[3] A helicopter from the USS Vincennes received small arms fire from Iranian patrol vessels, as it observed from high altitude. The Vincennes moved to engage the Iranian vessels, in the course of which they all violated Omani waters and left after being challenged and ordered to leave by a Royal Navy of Oman warship.[11] The Vincennes then pursued the Iranian gunboats, entering Iranian territorial waters to open fire. The USS Sides and USS Elmer Montgomery were nearby. Thus, the USS Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters at the time of the incident, as admitted by the US government in legal briefs and publicly by Admiral William Crowe on Nightline.[12][13] However, Admiral Crowe denied a U.S. government coverup of the incident and claimed that the USS Vincennes's helicopter was in international waters initially, when it was first fired upon by the Iranian gunboats.[12][14]

Contrary to the accounts of various USS Vincennes crewmembers, the Iranian airliner was climbing at the time and its radio transmitter was "squawking" on the Mode III civilian code only rather than on military Mode II, as recorded by the USS Vincennes own shipboard Aegis Combat System.[15]

After receiving no response to multiple radio challenges, the USS Vincennes fired two surface-to-air missiles at the airliner. One of the missiles hit the airliner, which exploded and fell in fragments into the water. Everyone on board was killed.[16]

The ship was carrying an Aegis system onboard,and there was no indication that even that the ship was illuminated by radar in a possible attack run anway.

The USS Sides and Montgomery which were in the general area,identified the aircraft as civilian too.

Plus since the US supplied most of the Iranian weapons themselves,they knew what kind of capabilities the Iranians had.

It was basically a trigger happy crew,who decided to fire first and ask questions later,and it was all covered up.

Edit!!

https://web.archive.org/web/20060527221409/http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~nrotc/ns302/20note.html

Other US Navy personal had called the Vincennes "Robocruiser" since the captain was known to be aggressive.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080229003110/http://www.geocities.com/csafdari/Proceedings.pdf

Commander David Carlson, commanding officer of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft "marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers' aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago."
 
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It may have already been mentioned but this further adds to the suspicion that the pro-russian rebels are being reinforced with russian army personnel 'in disguise'.

This is something the russians have been denying, but it does seem odd that a bunch of rebels are able to use such a sophisticated bit of kit.

It's a pre fall of soviet union price of kit. It wouldn't be beyond reason to assume the Ukrainians in the rebel group may have been part of the Soviet/Ukrainian military and been trained on them. Let alone the open "secret" that is many ex Russian military personel are joining the rebel ranks in solidarity.

It's also pretty reasonable to assume these weapons were in storage at an out of the way base/warehouse facility and that someone greased the palms of the person running it to get access to the weapons, then sending them over the border. Although this is a longer stretch than someone with training in the past joined the rebels.
 
Doesn't change anything but:

Malaysia Airlines says in a statement that "at all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization)". MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft through Ukrainian airspace, but was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft, the statement adds.
 
Wow you come up with some ****. The vincenz had been engaging iranian gunboats after picking a fight and was in iranian waters when it thought it was being attacked by a tomcat. The radar operator interpreted the radar type wrongly, as military rather than civilian. He then realised the error and informed the Captain that it appeared to be a commercial flight, the Captain acknowledged him but decided to ignore it, When no response was made to challenges on military frequencies they shot. When quizzed about his actions by superiors the Captain made it clear that just because it identified itself as commercial didn't mean it was

Fixed it for you :)
 
This is probably a repost but the plane was carrying 100 researchers on the way to an AIDS conference, some of the leading HIV/AIDS researchers were on board apparently.

Tin foil hats will no doubt be required by those saying some of those people were close or had a cure etc

Putting it in a harsh way... Whilst they were lost, their data won't have been and will be there for subsequent scientists to use if it was of any use.
 
Putting it in a harsh way... Whilst they were lost, their data won't have been and will be there for subsequent scientists to use if it was of any use.

As a scientist the idea of taking someone elses lab books and trying to continue their project is a nightmare. Even if they've been absolutely perfect at keeping their lab books you've still to read everything they've done in the last few years, try to get into their frame of mind, read between the lines at things they were thinking about and then spend an eternity digging all of their samples out of the freezers and their data files out of the computer while praying that their labelling and file names make sense to someone who had little to no prior contact with them. That's also not to mention the loss of the Primary Investigators who probably had all sorts of ideas at the back of their mind which are now gone.

If it is true it'll be a while before their data can be really put to use.
 
The separatists thought it was a ukrainian cargo plane like the one they shot down days before, so it was a mistake. Does not mean they should not be punished for it.

So we do what we would do if this happened to be a UK military incident. Arrest the person(s) responsible and throw them out of the military and in to jail.

Bet that won't happen here... It will be used as an excuse for the west to join in (openly) and the entire rebel group will be wiped off the face of the earth instead.
 
It's a pre fall of soviet union price of kit. It wouldn't be beyond reason to assume the Ukrainians in the rebel group may have been part of the Soviet/Ukrainian military and been trained on them. Let alone the open "secret" that is many ex Russian military personel are joining the rebel ranks in solidarity.

I am not so sure that training on this:

Inside_of_a_Buk_SAM_cropped.jpg



Qualifies you to operate this:

640px_Control_console_of_Buk_M2_E_missile_system.jpg



Unless we're saying Russia went to a scrapyard and rebuilt some 70's/80's era Buks to send to the rebels?
 
So we do what we would do if this happened to be a UK military incident. Arrest the person(s) responsible and throw them out of the military and in to jail.

Bet that won't happen here... It will be used as an excuse for the west to join in (openly) and the entire rebel group will be wiped off the face of the earth instead.

Plus more importantly I can see a reversal of the massive defence cuts in the US,and in Europe as a whole which have been touted in the last few years. You have to be careful about those red commie Russian *******s,the yellow chinese,the islamists,the french....!
 
Plus more importantly I can see a reversal of the massive defence cuts in the US,and in Europe as a whole which have been touted in the last few years. You have to be careful about those red commie Russian *******s,the yellow chinese,the islamists,the french....!

Oh especially the French, they've already conquered England once and are just waiting for another chance to do it again!
 
Russians, by their very nature, can not be trusted

That means most of our politicians must have been secret red commie *******s!!

:eek:

Oh especially the French, they've already conquered England once and are just waiting for another chance to do it again!

I heard they are working a G-Bomb. Its basically a highly potent Garlic infused WMD.

Plus its hard to detect,since it looks like a large bulb of Garlic.
 
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Plus more importantly I can see a reversal of the massive defence cuts in the US,and in Europe as a whole which have been touted in the last few years. You have to be careful about those red commie Russian *******s,the yellow chinese,the islamists,the french....!

But you do have to be careful, the Russians have just annexed a foreign European territory. They attacked another (semi)European neighbour in 2008. They have troops on the soil of a third European state, Moldova.

Basically, if you're in Europe and Russia is in your vecinity, you should be worried. Can you think of another country that acts in a similar manner? I can't.
 
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