Boeing 777 shot down

Zethor said:
But you do have to be careful, the Russians have just annexed a foreign European territory. They attacked another (semi)European neighbour in 2008. They have troops on the soil of a third European state, Moldova.

Basically, if you're in Europe and Russia is in your vecinity, you should be worried. Can you think of another country that acts in a similar manner? I can't.
Click to expand...

The USA ;)
 
Zethor said:
But you do have to be careful, the Russians have just annexed a foreign European territory. That was theirs for 78 of the last 100 years.

They attacked another (semi)European neighbour in 2008. After it invaded the small nation in between their countries, attacking Russian peacekeepers in the process.

They have troops on the soil of a third European state, Moldova. An ally of theirs and fellow CIS member.

Basically, if you're in Europe and Russia is in your vecinity, you should be worried. Can you think of another country that acts in a similar manner? I can't. How about the one invading Gaza?
Click to expand...
 
ubersonic said:
I am not so sure that training on this:

Inside_of_a_Buk_SAM_cropped.jpg



Qualifies you to operate this:

640px_Control_console_of_Buk_M2_E_missile_system.jpg



Unless we're saying Russia went to a scrapyard and rebuilt some 70's/80's era Buks to send to the rebels?
Click to expand...

Wasn't it reported that it may have been the older version rather than the state of the art newer version? It would also be suicide for the Russians to supply brand new state of the art kit that couldn't have come from somewhere else, especially if it's the size of a tank. It makes more sense, if it did come from Russia, to be the old version, at least equivelant to that used by the ukranian army. Plausable deniability.

Besides, the second part covers it even if it is the latest and greatest.
 
Zethor said:
But you do have to be careful, the Russians have just annexed a foreign European territory. They attacked another (semi)European neighbour in 2008. They have troops on the soil of a third European state, Moldova.

Basically, if you're in Europe and Russia is in your vecinity, you should be worried. Can you think of another country that acts in a similar manner? I can't.
Click to expand...

LOL,we have troops and bases everywhere,and NATO has nearly 30 aircraft/large helicopter carriers and dozens of 12000 ton+ amphibious assault vessels. Then we also have an enlarging NATO alliance and a missile defence shield which is now right on the Russian border itself negating their own defences massively.

You do realise their two most populous districts,which have both Moscow and St Petersburg are right next to places like Poland and Ukraine??

All of this is bourne out of intense fear and paranoia if anything else. The Russians are in a position of weakness NOT strength.

Their military is largish but outdated in many ways,and has lacked investment for many years,until the recent infusion of money.

The Russian military did poorly in Georgia and especially in Chechyna. FFS,in Georgia a TU22M bomber was used for reconnaissance since they lacked proper drones and it was shot down by a Georgian Buk system,which means they could not even counter their own systems. They even had to use mobile phones to talk between units.

Even their nuclear missile sub fleet is a shadow of what NATO has.

Large sections of the Russian military have out of date hardware,and even their navy has very few modern ships - this is why they needed to beg the French to go and sell them some helicopter carriers.

Between the UK and France we exceed the Russian Navy in aircraft carriers and large amphibious assault vessels alone. We have parity in nuclear attack subs and nuclear missile subs.

Even with the defence update package,considering how big Russia is,it is going to take decades for them to field a modern military.

By then we would have updated ours even more.
 
Last edited:
Amp34 said:
Wasn't it reported that it may have been the older version rather than the state of the art newer version? It would also be suicide for the Russians to supply brand new state of the art kit that couldn't have come from somewhere else, especially if it's the size of a tank.
Click to expand...

That's the issue though, Russia don't have any of the 1970's versions to give as they were replaced by both the new ones and the 90's ones, the old 70's/80's ones either got scrapped or sold to other countries.

Plus the pictures of one trying to run for the border looks just like the pictures of ones taken by the rebels from the Ukrainian SAM base.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
LOL,we have troops and bases everywhere,and NATO has nearly 30 aircraft/large helicopter carriers and dozens of 12000 ton+ amphibious assault vessels. Then we also have an enlarging NATO alliance and a missile defence shield which is now right on the Russian border itself negating their own defences massively.

You do realise their two most populous districts,which have both Moscow and St Petersburg are right next to places like Poland and Ukraine??

All of this is bourne out of intense fear and paranoia if anything else. The Russians are in a position of weakness NOT strength.

Their military is largish but outdated in many ways,and has lacked investment for many years,until the recent infusion of money.

The Russian military did poorly in Georgia and especially in Chechyna. FFS,in Georgia a TU22M bomber was used for reconnaissance since they lacked proper drones and it was shot down by a Georgian Buk system,which means they could not even counter their own systems. They even had to use mobile phones to talk between units.

Even their nuclear missile sub fleet is a shadow of what NATO has.

Large sections of the Russian military have out of date hardware,and even their navy has very few modern ships - this is why they needed to beg the French to go and sell them some helicopter carriers.

Between the UK and France we exceed the Russian Navy in aircraft carriers and large amphibious assault vessels alone. We have parity in nuclear attack subs and nuclear missile subs.

Even with the defence update package,considering how big Russia is,it is going to take decades for them to field a modern military.

By then we would have updated ours even more.
Click to expand...

None of this changes what I've stated. Yes, NATO is far more powerful than Russia but let me ask you this: what happens when you're a neighbour with Russia and you're not part of NATO? Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova is what happens.

As history has shown, authoritarian regimes are capable of anything and they tend to eat naive, peace-loving democracies for breakfast, unless they have powerful friends. NATO needs to stay strong, the world is not a safe place, the freedoms the people in the West Civilisation have gained after centuries of conflict can be lost in the blink of an eye.
 
ubersonic said:
That's the issue though, Russia don't have any of the 1970's versions to give as they were replaced by both the new ones and the 90's ones, the old 70's/80's ones either got scrapped or sold to other countries.

Plus the pictures of one trying to run for the border looks just like the pictures of ones taken by the rebels from the Ukrainian SAM base.
Click to expand...

How old are the Ukrainian ones?
 
Zethor said:
the world is not a safe place, the freedoms the people in the West Civilisation have gained after centuries of conflict can be lost in the blink of an eye.
Click to expand...

Sadly something a lot of people don't appreciate - probably due to being lulled into a false sense of security in this country due to living all their lives in relative safety and assume that is the normal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom