Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 9,950
Just saw a bit of the Vice video. I don't understand why they're showing dead bodies. What is wrong with them?![]()
Rubbernecking vultures. Plenty around.
And no, I won't watch this video. How about you?
Just saw a bit of the Vice video. I don't understand why they're showing dead bodies. What is wrong with them?![]()
Well, last time was 2001 when they accidentally shot down a passenger plane with 78 people onboard and denied it at first.
However, they do have BUKs and types of SAMs in the area, and had recently been complaining of Russian jets flying into Ukrainian territory.
Do you have a source for that, please?
Let's be clear about what you just described. It's not just one call, it's a total of three allegedly intercepted calls, and only with the three edited together do we arrive at that full description. Do we know that all three calls took place the same day, or do we choose to believe it? It's evidence, no doubt. But they could be taking responsibility for downing a military plane in one call, and then simply describing the MH17 crash in the other calls made on other days, for all we know right now.
Rubbernecking vultures. Plenty around.
And no, I won't watch this video. How about you?
[TW]Fox;26629293 said:Once, 13 years ago. If you avoided for that reason you would need to avoid a major super power as well![]()
The altitude that MH17 was flying at is way above the ceiling of the jets possessed by Ukraine so they could not have been escorting it..
True, but the main aircraft deployed in that region are the SU-25. Op ceiling on those is only about 18k feet. The SU-27 is mostly used as an air-to-air fighter. The rebels have no aircraft thus the aircraft escorting would be multi-role SU-25s.
damn that plane sucks
Oh come on that's just plain stupid. Of course they possess planes that can fly to that height.
Err, you do know escort dutys are provided by aircraft which have a primary role of air to air combat. Do you think the USA escorts things with A-10s?
The SU-25 is multi-role. Why would they escort a plane with air to air when the enemy has no fighter aircraft? You'd use a multi-role.
No way, the SU-25 is badass!
It's a close air support not multi-role - it's totally unsuited to escort duties it's totally suited to blowing holes in the side of IFVs.
Why would they escorting a civilian plane anyway why not move the transit route?
It's arguably the best plane in it's role in the world. It's just that role does not include escorting civilian airliners.
Here we go with the conspiracy theoriesRussian defence ministry releases list of 10 questions for the Ukrainian authorities firmly planting the suggestion of a false flag attack in the minds of the gullible:
TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on? - Bias and a desire to blame their enemies, silly Russia.
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes? - How can anybody not think that's a good question?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work? because the plane came down in an area they don't control, silly Russia.
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers? - Of course, who wouldn't want to prove their innocence.
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?- Yes, America will supply it as they've been paying close attention to what you commies are up to
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”? - Another good question.
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems? - Another good question.
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory? - I hadn't heard about this but If that is true, then it is a total game changer as it could absolve whoever fired the missile of guilt (I doubt it's true, Ukraine wouldn't be that stupid).
9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators? - If true, that looks dodgy.
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty - To be honest they learned that lying works as action still hasn't been taken against them.
And would the main threat to those airliners not be from armoured anti-air defences?
Something the SU-25 is perfect at destroying.
You wouldn't use an SU-25 in that role SAMs are taken out by SEAD planes. The reason that SU-25s are the only planes in the locality is that they are Close Air Support which are kept close to expected battle lines because they tend to have less range (dont want big tanks on something exposed to small arms fire) and because you want them to be able to loiter for as long as possible however this will also be at a fuel inefficient height (due to their role). Air superiority fighters are stationed further back so the can maintain high loiter patterns and to take advantage of the longer runways they require compared to CAS. You don't escort something past AA defences you remove the defences first with anti-radar missiles. I am guessing (and I can't be fagged to look) that the Ukranians probably use a SU-24 maybe? Sure someone here would know.
You wouldn't use an SU-25 in that role SAMs are taken out by SEAD planes. The reason that SU-25s are the only planes in the locality is that they are Close Air Support which are kept close to expected battle lines because they tend to have less range (dont want big tanks on something exposed to small arms fire) and because you want them to be able to loiter for as long as possible however this will also be at a fuel inefficient height (due to their role). Air superiority fighters are stationed further back so the can maintain high loiter patterns and to take advantage of the longer runways they require compared to CAS. You don't escort something past AA defences you remove the defences first with anti-radar missiles. I am guessing (and I can't be fagged to look) that the Ukranians probably use a SU-24 maybe? Sure someone here would know.