Boeing 777 shot down

do_ron_ron · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:08

MrMoonX said:
NATO need to send in spcial forces to secure the crash site and ensure that it isn't messed with. The rebels are removing bodies that should be repatriated to holland etc. it's disgraceful

You have not really thought this through have you?

Western special forces appear in Eastern Ukraine and will have to battle local militia for control of the area.

What do you think Russian reaction will be to Western forces killing people they see as kin?

Your suggestion will only ensure the situation grows far more dangerous.

CREATIVE!11 · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:13

ubersonic said:
Video here from Time magazine with an expert explaining how this could have happened by accident: http://time.com/3006294/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-accident/

Personally I am a bit shocked to see western media that isn't banging the war drum lol.

Good article,

Amazing to finally see some people being objective and impartial about the situation

snips86x · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:15

do_ron_ron said:
You have not really thought this through have you?

Western special forces appear in Eastern Ukraine and will have to battle local militia for control of the area.

What do you think Russian reaction will be to Western forces killing people they see as kin?

Your suggestion will only ensure the situation grows far more dangerous.

It's a bit over the top, but you need to balance it out.

Do they wait until political negotiation finally get to where the investigators are allows unrestricted access, or do they seize the area by force, without killing (stun?) so it can be preserved and stop the removal of anything from the site - which at this point is too late but at least its sooner rather than later.

arknor · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:28

ubersonic said:
Video here from Time magazine with an expert explaining how this could have happened by accident: http://time.com/3006294/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-accident/

Personally I am a bit shocked to see western media that isn't banging the war drum lol.

alternatively they could have been intoxicated like the terrorists guarding the crash site.

scorza · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:33

CREATIVE!11 said:
Good article,

Amazing to finally see some people being objective and impartial about the situation

That's pretty much been the assumed scenario from the beginning, and backed by the circumstantial evidence and subsequent actions by Russia and the pro-Russian militia.

[TW]Fox · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:34

Somnambulist said:
News this morning saying 196 bodies (I guess most of the rest might be slurry/annihilated) have now been removed from site

No, the news is saying 196 bodies have been FOUND at the site, not removed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28389991

Cosimo · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:34

MrMoonX said:
NATO need to send in spcial forces to secure the crash site and ensure that it isn't messed with. The rebels are removing bodies that should be repatriated to holland etc. it's disgraceful

They should have asked the Ukrainian government for permission to do so on Friday. What do we get, inactivity, lots of hot air in from politicians/papers/tv and nothing else. It's shameful.

ianh · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:39

snips86x said:
or do they seize the area by force, without killing (stun?) so it can be preserved and stop the removal of anything from the site

If you introduced any western troops from any nation into a zone controlled by the rebels there *will* be deaths unless the rebels agreed to pull back prior which would never happen. Thinking that they'd be able to only stun people is a fantasy sadly.

shauncr91 · 20 Jul 2014 at 10:40

The most upsetting thing about this is that regardless of who turns out to be responsible for the shooting is just how the situation is being handled with the bodies. Neither the Ukrainian's nor the Russian fighters wanted this and it is obviously an accident so I don't know why there can't be at least some sort of effort from the separatists controlling the crash site to hand over the bodies to an independent party so they can be ID'd and returned to their families for burial and closure. Even if they just put them all in a truck and leave it on the border for collection it doesn't have to be dignified, just give the innocent families what they need and sort out the politics after, it's saddening

Nitefly · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:04

From the Beeb:

I have that travel book - reminds me that those that died were real people

Somnambulist · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:10

[TW]Fox;26633066 said:
No, the news is saying 196 bodies have been FOUND at the site, not removed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28389991

You're not up to date.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/bodies-from-malaysian-airlines-crash-left-to-rot-in-deserted

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-armed-rebels-chaos-corpses-ukraine

According to Aleksey Megrin, the leader of the rescue workers, around 190 bodies had already been picked up by his men. "We are finding bodies and bringing them to the place where rebels tell us to bring them," he said. "We don't know what kind of police are working here: Ukrainian or Russian."

NexusK · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:14

Rebels have supposedly stopped obstructing them now.

Somnambulist · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:36

NexusK said:
Rebels have supposedly stopped obstructing them now.

They've probably finished looting and removing anything potentially important.

do_ron_ron · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:51

snips86x said:
It's a bit over the top, but you need to balance it out.

Do they wait until political negotiation finally get to where the investigators are allows unrestricted access, or do they seize the area by force, without killing (stun?) so it can be preserved and stop the removal of anything from the site - which at this point is too late but at least its sooner rather than later.

You obviously do not understand the politics of the area. Russia has been growing more alarmed at US missiles being placed on ex Soviet bloc countries since the supposed end of the Cold War. Now you propose to send in Western troops to attack people on their border. People regarded as their kin. This 'solution' is almost guaranteed to result in Russian troops coming in to 'aid' their neighbours.

Amp34 · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:55

Somnambulist said:
News this morning saying 196 bodies (I guess most of the rest might be slurry/annihilated) have now been removed from site, with emergency workers who helped bag them having no idea where they've been taken to by separatists. Relatives of the dead are going to go mental - seems like they'll never be able to repatriate/bury their loved ones as they'll all go 'missing' (probably via the nearest incinerator or a mass grave).

Just stop for a second and think... Why would the rebels want to dispose of the bodies? What would they tell the west about the incident that we don't know already (or that the rebels haven't said already)? It's not like hiding the bodies and whistling will make the incident unhappen is it.

[TW]Fox · 20 Jul 2014 at 11:58

Horrible bias BBC News propaganda machine or whatever its cool to call them these days are reporting the 196 bodies have simply been placed into refrigerated rail wagons, which seems reasonable.

arknor · 20 Jul 2014 at 12:02

[TW]Fox;26633347 said:
Horrible bias BBC News propaganda machine or whatever its cool to call them these days are reporting the 196 bodies have simply been placed into refrigerated rail wagons, which seems reasonable.

not telling the world what you are doing with them however is not and claiming "local experts" in that part of the country is LOL

experts compared to what? the local krokodil addict

scorza · 20 Jul 2014 at 12:10

Amp34 said:
Just stop for a second and think... Why would the rebels want to dispose of the bodies? What would they tell the west about the incident that we don't know already (or that the rebels haven't said already)? It's not like hiding the bodies and whistling will make the incident unhappen is it.

Well the Russian military commander of the pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine has already claimed that the bodies were already dead and drained of blood when the plane was shot down, so I guess we could verify that that claim was incorrect.

It would not surprise me at all if eventually the Russian position shifts towards an implausible conspiracy theory. All they need is for their own nationalistic citizens and a few gullible idiots in the West to believe it.

koolpc · 20 Jul 2014 at 12:19

Horrible news and sad for all the relatives etc. I even seen some pics of the bodies on the net and that is just awful to see. RIP to them all.

Edinho · 20 Jul 2014 at 12:25

koolpc said:
Horrible news and sad for all the relatives etc. I even seen some pics of the bodies on the net and that is just awful to see. RIP to them all.

What you just happened to stumble into sites containing pictures of bodies?