Poll: Brazilian Grand Prix 2021, São Paulo - Race 19

[Scam]

But, end of the day, despite everything Lewis won, so I don't care to argue the toss over it.

It's well worth Mercedes appealing to give him a 5sec penalty. Bottas was only 3secs behind so a 5sec penalty would drop him to third.

A spirited defence is not pushing someone off the road and then weaving down the straight, he should have had a 5-10 second penalty, but the FIA once again bottled it, while he’s allowed to keep getting away with things like this he will never learn, he’s a danger and will cause a bad accident sooner or later

Indeed. It's almost like the FIA are happy for the dangerous driving because they (for some reason) want a new poster boy. They threw the kitchen sink at trying to stop Mercedes this weekend. I don't understand it though, Lewis getting his 8th would be a fantastic advertisment for the sport. New records broken, come witness the greatest driver there ever was etc. Not some jumped up bully boy with a fast car, I can go to my local Burger King car park on a Saturday night and see that

 

[jonneymendoza]

Neither Bottas or Lando had a brand new power unit though? Might be wrong but sure it was mentioned on the C4 commentary during the Sprint race that Hamilton had something like a 10kph advantage over Bottas, and it was strongly suggested that this was due to Lewis fresh power unit being "turned up to the limit" (or conversely everyone else's older units being turned down slightly due to wear)

Bottas engine is quite newish actually

 

[sparkymark75]

They don't need the camera as they have the telemetry from the steering wheel angles in relation to the cars position on the track, and much more. Look Lewis won, he had the fastest car by some 20kph so it was inevitable he would overtake everyone in front of him. It was only Max who put up a 'spirited' defence, all others just threw in the towel so just let them race and forget the media politics..

I was under the impression they only look at the telemetry if they are investigating it. It was shown on screen as only being noted.

The problem with this incident is it sets precedent. As the Mercedes engineer said on the radio afterwards, it’s now okay to run someone of the track if they are overtaking you. Interesting that on Sky they were all for MV being penalised for it. On the C4 highlights later, they were more for the stewards not getting involved. I get that they want to see some racing as it’s sorely lacking these days but MVs idea of racing is to bully other drivers of the track. When the roles are reversed, the other driver is an idiot.

 

[SoliD]

Pretty sure there have been a number of occasions this year where a driver forced another driver off track and also left track and was told to give up the place.

2nd RBR pitstop came quite early after the hamilton radio exchange, was this to ensure they both had to go on the hards knowing if it went another 5-10 laps Lewis could have gone on the opposite tyre and either grabbed race position straight away on medium or later with the hard tyre?

 

[bayo000]

It's well worth Mercedes appealing to give him a 5sec penalty. Bottas was only 3secs behind so a 5sec penalty would drop him to third.

As mentioned few times, stewards had access to all the technical data which would have given them a lot more details then a camera view. Also not sure how I feel about giving driver a penalty post race after they already decided that no investigation was necessary during the race. For all we know Max eased off in the last few laps, if he had know he could potentially get 5 sec penalty he'd have a chance to do something about it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Pretty sure there have been a number of occasions this year where a driver forced another driver off track and also left track and was told to give up the place.

2nd RBR pitstop came quite early after the hamilton radio exchange, was this to ensure they both had to go on the hards knowing if it went another 5-10 laps Lewis could have gone on the opposite tyre and either grabbed race position straight away on medium or later with the hard tyre?

Max came on the radio after the 1st stop to warn the team "don't let them undercut us again". I think RB were just trying to cover off any Merc stop.

 

[utajoker]

In the sprint race hamilton hit 348kph, norris 353kph.

Cant find any speed traps from the gp

 

[Muska]

It is consistent. Didn't Fernando get a telling off for the same thing some races ago?

I'm not sure if you've quoted me out of context. I was referring to LeClerc completing 2 laps of the Spanish GP in 2020 with no seatbelt and Ferrari receiving no fine/reprimand. Yet Mercedes have.

I think it's difficult to say that doesn't show consistency.

 

[jonneymendoza]

As mentioned few times, stewards had access to all the technical data which would have given them a lot more details then a camera view. Also not sure how I feel about giving driver a penalty post race after they already decided that no investigation was necessary during the race. For all we know Max eased off in the last few laps, if he had know he could potentially get 5 sec penalty he'd have a chance to do something about it.

Do they ever share this info to the publi or to other teams?

 

[bayo000]

Do they ever share this info to the publi or to other teams?

No idea but doubt it, maybe post season or after major rule changes they might do but not sure teams would like their data being available during the season.

 

[Kenai]

Back at the Austrian GP they were dishing out 5s penalties for pushing others off the track as if they had quotas to meet.

What's most surprising here though is that it's not even just a lack of a penalty, they've judged the action as not being worthy of investigation. For all the talk about "they'll have looked at telemetry" etc. I'm not convinced they necessarily will have, if all they did was note it and dismiss it. There's no 'Decision Document' to explain their analysis because there presumably wasn't any.

Generally these documents close with the line...

Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the
Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and
Chapter 4 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits

How does this apply if no 'Decision' was made due to never being actively investigated?

 

[Feek]

Pretty sure there have been a number of occasions this year where a driver forced another driver off track and also left track and was told to give up the place.

Or given a five second penalty.

On the Notebook, Ted made some comment that the Stewards have been criticised for being too harsh this season and that perhaps they're just trying to lighten up. The problem is that they need to be consistent. They've behaved a certain way all through the season, they should carry on that way until the end and then change for next year.

 

[Scam]

As mentioned few times, stewards had access to all the technical data which would have given them a lot more details then a camera view.

But did they actually look at it? I doubt it, all they did was note the incident - not investigate it. So I'd imagine there is a plethora of data they simply didn't look at. Again, it smacks of the decision being political rather than anything else; they probably looked at a couple of the replays and thought "well we want to see hard racing so we'll let that one slide". Very poor indeed.

 

[bayo000]

But did they actually look at it? I doubt it, all they did was note the incident - not investigate it. So I'd imagine there is a plethora of data they simply didn't look at. Again, it smacks of the decision being political rather than anything else; they probably looked at a couple of the replays and thought "well we want to see hard racing so we'll let that one slide". Very poor indeed.

Guess we'll never know what data they looked at but doubt them having a camera view would change their mind. It's really us fans that would benefit from being able to see it and come to our own conclusion.

Either way, Lewis won and the next race is this weekend so may as well start looking forward to that rather than crying about ifs and buts.

 

[GR63]

Agreed. They’ve both been mighty.

It must exist somewhere? The footage disappears, Mercedes rear wing disappears. It’s all looking a bit suspect. The biggest problem is that the FIA are enablers off Max’s behaviour, you can pretty much only overtake him on the straight. It’ll end in tears one day and we’ll all say, we told you so.

It already has.. Max's refusal to drive sensibly or ever yield led to Silverstone and Monza. Yes, Lewis was involved but for the former Lewis was backing out and the second he held his line.

Lewis was making the corner. He just couldn't because max straightened up. You can see he turned in fine.

I think onboard shows Lewis was on normal line to make corner and Max chose a line that saw him run Lewis off road (and more)

FIA, as corrupt as you can get
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/992372/1/f1-stewards-made-call-without-verstappen-s-frontfacing-camera

Much as I despise FIA inconsistency, there is no evidence of corruption, just incompetence!

I was under the impression they only look at the telemetry if they are investigating it. It was shown on screen as only being noted.

The problem with this incident is it sets precedent. As the Mercedes engineer said on the radio afterwards, it’s now okay to run someone of the track if they are overtaking you. Interesting that on Sky they were all for MV being penalised for it. On the C4 highlights later, they were more for the stewards not getting involved. I get that they want to see some racing as it’s sorely lacking these days but MVs idea of racing is to bully other drivers of the track. When the roles are reversed, the other driver is an idiot.

C4 team is two ex-RB drivers yes?

 

[Bubo]

I've never been so excited about the BBC Sports Personality of the Year, Lewis still in with a chance of taking the coveted award. Sit ye down Emma Raducanu! (Actually I secretly want Mark Cavendish to win it)

 

[bayo000]

I'm not sure if you've quoted me out of context. I was referring to LeClerc completing 2 laps of the Spanish GP in 2020 with no seatbelt and Ferrari receiving no fine/reprimand. Yet Mercedes have.

I think it's difficult to say that doesn't show consistency.

Just because it's not consistent with previous rulings doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do, as long as they stick to it going forward. As far as I know Max is the first driver to get fined for touching another car but I still think it was the right decision (though maybe a bit steep) and hope going forward they dish out the same fine to anyone that does it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

C4 team is two ex-RB drivers yes?

Coulthard still does demo days and media events for them. Earlier this year he was racing a F1 car against a RC car.

A cracking watch if you skip the first 3 mins

 

[englishpremier]

14 points in it now right?

I think this title could come down to fastest laps. Imagine that. Lewis wins the next three races. Max is second but picked up a fastest lap in one of them making them equal on points. In the third race Lewis is has fastest lap, but Perez pits for soft tyres for a fastest lap run two laps from the end.

Not sure what the outcome is then on countbacks. Both would have 9 wins. I haven't looked at finishes further down the road.

 

[Calm]

I've never been so excited about the BBC Sports Personality of the Year, Lewis still in with a chance of taking the coveted award. Sit ye down Emma Raducanu! (Actually I secretly want Mark Cavendish to win it)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone express excitement about the sports personality awards!