Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

[dowie]

I'm clearly arguing from a binary perspective?

We're also talking about a country that literally makes being openly gay illegal.

What are you arguing and what does being gay have to do with any of this?

Reports i've read state that she does indeed have "female bits".

What reports say that?

Do you have a source that backs up your statement that she "doesn't really have female bits"?

The IBA, she failed two chromosome tests, she's an XY male with DSD which clearly gives her an athletic advantage, she obviously won't have female bits.

If you're stating Khleif has a genetic advantage, then how is that some athletes with genetic advantages* is fair but others are not? Where exactly are you drawing the line and why?

There are various obvious lines to draw - if you're unfamiliar with the sport boxing has weight classes for example, the line is the boundaries for those weight classes.

Some events have age ranges, so there's another line drawn - the age range.

Some events might be held for disabled athletes - so there's another line - does the competitor have the relevant disability?

And now there are the male/female events... it seems pretty sensible to have separate male and female events with boxing as there is an obvious safety issue in addition to fairness issues. There might be some exceptions where someone is intersex with no impact on performance but that doesn't appear to be the case here or with the original issues with Semenya.

 

[Dis86]

@dowie are they actually a man? Everything I've seen just refers to a pair of tests that have now been disavowed. Has there been any other testing? I mean...dude looks like a lady and all that but *shrug*

 

[Harlequin]

Amazing isnt it.

Algeria: Mass Convictions for Homosexuality

An Algerian court on September 3, 2020 sentenced two men to prison terms and 42 others to suspended terms after mass arrests at what the police alleged was a “gay wedding.”

www.hrw.org

Algeria would never ever send anyone to the Olympics who is not 100% female.

Gay people in Algeria : an invisible community - Le Journal International

Translated by Gueric Cardet, proofread by Natacha Perrin In Algeria, the law can punish ‘any person guilty of an act …

web.archive.org

 

[scarps]

The IBA, she failed two chromosome tests, she's an XY male with DSD which clearly gives her an athletic advantage, she obviously won't have female bits.

There are many conflicting reports to what tests she had done, plus they wrote this in their statement

Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.

If it was confidential how do we know she failed xy chromosome test.

This statement never mentions xy stuff.

https://www.iba.sport/news/statemen...fications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

 

[Kenai]

There are many conflicting reports to what tests she had done, plus they wrote this in their statement

Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.

If it was confidential how do we know she failed xy chromosome test.

This statement never mentions xy stuff.

https://www.iba.sport/news/statemen...fications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

The XY stuff appears to trace back to the IBA president in an interview on Russian TV, rather than anything officially published by the organisation.

 

[scarps]

The XY stuff appears to trace back to the IBA president in an interview on Russian TV, rather than anything officially published by the organisation.

I've no idea to be honest but I can't believe she never had any other tests prior to these ones considering shes been boxing since 2018.

Surely she had tests before the Tokyo Olympics, or during to see if you weren't doped up.

 

[dlockers]

The XY stuff appears to trace back to the IBA president in an interview on Russian TV, rather than anything officially published by the organisation.

The CEO said it

 

[Kenai]

The CEO said it

I've only seen reference to the IBA President saying it, maybe the CEO did too but I haven't seen that mentioned

 

[StriderX]

The CEO said it

A Kremlin crony.

 

[dowie]

@dowie are they actually a man? Everything I've seen just refers to a pair of tests that have now been disavowed. Has there been any other testing? I mean...dude looks like a lady and all that but *shrug*

The tests haven't been disavowed - one boxer declined to appeal and the other boxer did put in an appeal and then withdrew it, they've both left the ruling unchallenged for a reason.

The IOC has had a spat with the IBA and the IOC itself has stopped doing sex verification, the replacement for the IBA has some bizarre rule re: whatever sex is in a competitor's passport (which could allow for trans competitors too AFAIK).

There are many conflicting reports to what tests she had done, plus they wrote this in their statement

Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.

If it was confidential how do we know she failed xy chromosome test.

This statement never mentions xy stuff.

https://www.iba.sport/news/statemen...fications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

Correct it wasn't a testosterone test, it would have been a PCR test, the head of the IBA announced they were XY. We know they're not XX because they failed the tests by two independent laboratories, if they were XX they'd not have this issue.

 

[sidimmu]

When you starting going down a hole of which natural advantages can and can't exist, it gets pretty messy.

A "woman" producing levels of testosterone on par or near a man would be a significant and unfair advantage.
Plus see above about chromosome testing.

 

[StriderX]

A "woman" producing levels of testosterone on par or near a man would be a significant and unfair advantage.
Plus see above about chromosome testing.

LeBron has a significant and unfair advantage over his opponents, should he be forbidden from competing?

 

[dowie]

LeBron has a significant and unfair advantage over his opponents, should he be forbidden from competing?

So do you not think there should be separate male and female events since elite male athletes have advantages over lesser male athletes?

Should there not be age ranges either?

Scrap the Paralympics too?

What are you actually arguing here - no separate categories because even with categories you can claim other advantages - just leave any competitive sport to men mostly in their 20s?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

LeBron has a significant and unfair advantage over his opponents, should he be forbidden from competing?

Funny you should say that considering that for the last few pages people have been talking about boxing. You know the sport with weight classes to minimise the advantage that size has and produce a fairer competition.

 

[sidimmu]

LeBron has a significant and unfair advantage over his opponents, should he be forbidden from competing?

Height and testosterone are two completely different parameters, dont try to confuse them now lad.

Very different when you are then talking about combat sports too. But I dont expect the average person to have deep knowledge in that area, so its okay.

Why do you want to see women get beaten up by a biological man? Or someone that under classification is not even a woman?
If you fancy seeing women beaten up in a sporting environment by anything other than their own sex, you're sick.

 

[Nasher]

Need one of the competitors to do an "accidental" nut slap, then we'll know

Just going off what the passport says is a bit to easy to game tbh. In certain countries these athletes have political connection.

 

[One More Solo]

I don’t think anyone wants to see women beaten up by a man but the evidence that is the case here is scant to say the least.

 

[sidimmu]

I don’t think anyone wants to see women beaten up by a man but the evidence that is the case here is scant to say the least.

As evidenced above with chromosome tests, they are not a biological female, therefore, they should not be competing with females.
Its pretty bloody simple.

 

[One More Solo]

As evidenced above with chromosome tests, they are not a biological female, therefore, they should not be competing with females.
Its pretty bloody simple.

Until the tests are published then this is pure speculation.

 

[tom_e]

As evidenced above with chromosome tests, they are not a biological female, therefore, they should not be competing with females.
Its pretty bloody simple.

The Russians are well known for their independent and accurate testing in sports...