Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

Not really sure if this was the best thread as Semenya was born this way, but this is a pretty interesting story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/commonwealth-games/43688627

I think that this must be pretty tough for naturally born female competitors. It is difficult as people are sensitive to the rights of people to self determine their sex, but female sport may need protection, otherwise it could gradually become dominated by transgender athletes. Should we be considering different categories?
 
SpeedFreak said:
Not really sure if this was the best thread as Semenya was born this way, but this is a pretty interesting story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/commonwealth-games/43688627

I think that this must be pretty tough for naturally born female competitors. It is difficult as people are sensitive to the rights of people to self determine their sex, but female sport may need protection, otherwise it could gradually become dominated by transgender athletes. Should we be considering different categories?
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People can pretend to be whatever gender they want but their sex should remain what they were born as, for the purpose of competitive sports.
 
SpeedFreak said:
Not really sure if this was the best thread as Semenya was born this way, but this is a pretty interesting story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/commonwealth-games/43688627

I think that this must be pretty tough for naturally born female competitors. It is difficult as people are sensitive to the rights of people to self determine their sex, but female sport may need protection, otherwise it could gradually become dominated by transgender athletes. Should we be considering different categories?
Click to expand...

Hubbard was unremarkable as a male weightlifter (although still competed professionally) and is crushing her competition competing as female. IMO if they transitioned before puberty it might level the playing field a bit, but than in itself is a can of worms.
 
Somnambulist said:
Hubbard was unremarkable as a male weightlifter (although still competed professionally) and is crushing her competition competing as female. IMO if they transitioned before puberty it might level the playing field a bit, but than in itself is a can of worms.
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Surely if you're "crushing" your competition you actually have to win?

She didn't in her last competition
 
Unfortunately the world has gone mental. We probably won't see sense until we see something like Mike Tyson deciding he's now going to compete in women's boxing and end up killing someone in the ring as a result.
 
Yeah that's nonsense. Trans women shouldn't be allowed in protected women's categories .

IOC made a rod for their own backs with the Testosterone arguments with intersex athletes. As if Testosterone is the only material difference, in sport terms, between men and women .
 
Tefal said:
Surely if you're "crushing" your competition you actually have to win?

She didn't in her last competition
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Some context. As a male lifter she was nothing special internationally (I follow the sport), nowhere near the top at world level - Aussie/NZ lifters are pretty much down the bottom of the heap. As a woman she is now up there in her weight class with the best at international level - she came 2nd at Worlds (which is the competition you're referring to), behind the Olympic bronze medalist after destroying all her competition at the national and local multinational competitions previously. There are female lifters in NZ who feel they'll never get a chance to represent their country because Laurel has the spot on lock now, not just in her weight class but others, as usually in big competitions, less successful countries will only have so many 'spots' available, so NZ might only have 3 spots for WL across all the 8 weight classes for that gender.
 
SpeedFreak said:
I think that this must be pretty tough for naturally born female competitors. It is difficult as people are sensitive to the rights of people to self determine their sex, but female sport may need protection, otherwise it could gradually become dominated by transgender athletes. Should we be considering different categories?
Click to expand...

I'm going to stick with my opinion I had previously - the female category ought to be the protected one and anyone not quite "female" (for reasons that give an obvious advantage - intersex, used to be a man etc..) ought to be excluded from the protected category and compete in the other category: "male". If we want to re-brand "male" "not-natural-born-female" or "other" or something then whatevs... or if the intersex and trans athletes want a separate category each then again that's a fair enough variation too (though there are lots of potential interest conditions so that could get messy again).

But basic principle should be that the intention of the female category was to allow women to participate in sport by recognising that a separate category was needed because of the obvious physical advantages of men, letting people who cross the boundaries into it defeats the purpose of having it in the first place and means women who have worked so hard to train/compete are potentially robbed of medals they'd have otherwise won.
 
Good lord who would have ever imagined that humans would have reached a level of arrogance, after religion being dominant, to believe that their mentality (soul, psyche call it what you will) is separate from their biology. It's not, stop saying it is. We're animals too, we're not special.
 
Somnambulist said:
Some context. As a male lifter she was nothing special internationally (I follow the sport), nowhere near the top at world level - Aussie/NZ lifters are pretty much down the bottom of the heap. As a woman she is now up there in her weight class with the best at international level - she came 2nd at Worlds (which is the competition you're referring to), behind the Olympic bronze medalist after destroying all her competition at the national and local multinational competitions previously. There are female lifters in NZ who feel they'll never get a chance to represent their country because Laurel has the spot on lock now, not just in her weight class but others, as usually in big competitions, less successful countries will only have so many 'spots' available, so NZ might only have 3 spots for WL across all the 8 weight classes for that gender.
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Went for a Commonwealth Record in the snatch. Snapped her ****, didn't finish.
 
If Self-ID passes, then it will be entirely legal for someone to simply declare themself whatever sex they wish and illegal to disagree or exclude them. If you're not cutting it in male athletics, if you want to shower with women at the leisure centre, if you want to supervise the girl guides or be Labour women's officer - just declare you're a woman and rock on up. Anyone challenging you will be breaking the law under the Equalities Act.

There's a petition to the government here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

It was regrettably created by Mumsnet Feminists so it's all about how women should get to determine how this works :rolleyes: However, probably still worth signing and passing around as it's a common interest. My enemy's enemy and all that. It's very close to 10,000 signatures requiring a response and has only been going a few weeks.
 
Destination said:
Sure, lets judge it on how people look. It can be deceptive.
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Yes it can be. But there's a great difference between false positives and false negatives. Just because some men (typically with a tonne of make-up, some cosmetic surgery and careful camera angles and posing) can pass as a woman on casual inspection, doesn't mean you can't look at another man and say with a very, very high degree of confidence what they are. We do it every day.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Yes it can be. But there's a great difference between false positives and false negatives. Just because some men (typically with a tonne of make-up, some cosmetic surgery and careful camera angles and posing) can pass as a woman on casual inspection, doesn't mean you can't look at another man and say with a very, very high degree of confidence what they are. We do it every day.
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It a quote from quite some time ago, but are you saying you can look at castor and state that she is a man?
Or are you speaking in general?
 
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