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DirectX 12

I am aware of that, but general public perception will be "NVIDIA do not support it" and for whatever the reason, that will not help Mantles prospects.

AMD should have nailed this earlier.

The other scenario is Nvidia just say stuff it and ignore it anyway.

I think AMD are trying to use their "Next Gen" console advantage and it is possible that XBO and PS4 "ports" MIGHT see "free" performance benefits because of Mantle, in which case, it might be difficult for Nvidia to ignore it?

Yer, I quoted you but was just making my thoughts as general and wasn't implying you didn't know :)

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For me, Mantle is a fantastic idea but early problems and caveats are just helping itself dig a 6ft hole. It was first brought to the public's attention in August for a December release in BF4. That slipped to February and was very problematic. We are now in March and still it is problematic. Thief was the first game to support it on release date but Thief is released and no mantle support (and not a AAA game IMO). How long do people give it before even the hardened AMD supporters are fed up?
 
Does seem with AMD that it's acceptable if it's half baked because that's sort of their thing lol.

If MS were being called out for similar delays people would be shouting and screaming.
 
Microsoft are always announcing delays or releasing half baked things just to try and hit there targets, take vista for one, they released it and then had to scrap half of the code almost straight away and fix with an update, they actually went back to an early stable build of longhorn to build windows 7 rather than improve vista, and now theyve done it again with windows 8, big update to 8.1 for free to fix there mess up and tthere's another big update due in April to take it to 8.2
 
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I can only think of one problem i have running Mantle right now and that is the VRAM memory leak which im sure will be fixed. Apart from that it works great in this broken assed BF4 game. My CPU usage is down a fair bit (i was seeing less than 30% on one 64p map the other night) and i even tested running BF4 with my CPU 'underclocked' to 3.0GHz and saw no performance drop. I can run Ultra quite fine but for the memory leak.. my max fps is up.. my min fps is up and my averages are just so much better than in DX.

RIP Mantle? Its funny how those who say these things havnt even ran Mantle themselves to see how great it really is. U gotta see it and feel for yourselves before u start ****ging it off.

They fixed running Intel graphics with Mantle enabled so no more BF4 'Options crash', the Mantle SDK isnt released yet so Fraps etc isnt gona be able to work yet but i can still record with OBS running borderless window mode anyway.

I'll admit when Mantle first came about i hated it as it was a mess but in just a short space of time they have really been working to make it better and it is. Image quality to me seems exactly the same as DX. Yea i see those blurry rocks by the wall on Caspian in DX too ;)

People need to give AMD a break and stop being idiots with dumb comments about something they aint even tried out themselves. I dont get PhysX but i dont **** it off either.

So DX12 might be around the corner or might even be well into 2015 which is more likely as Win 9 is due in 2015. People jump the gun so easily around here. Mantle will be open sometime soon.. but for now its in Beta for a reason. We are all Beta testers like most other tech that comes out.

So calm ur willys and lets see how it pans out :)

Rant over.
 
Well in that case a lot of AMDs presentation slides last year were massively over ambitious and misleading. Seeing as the conference was supposed to be about Hawaii and the launch of their new GPU, spending the whole time talking about Mantle. I haven't seen anywhere that's specifically stated you'll be buying into an alpha product.

Not looking like a selling point to me right now considering the life cycle of a high tier GPU. If Mantle was an open standard with accessible SDK that anyone could try out on their hardware then that would be a different story. Instead once you read past Roy Taylor and his gang you realise that infact Mantle is highly vendor controlled and currently closed off to GCN cards.

What kind of alpha is that? How does that benefit anyone? Surely early access is the best time to let everyone have a piece of the pie?

By it's very design it'll fail, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise, honest to god :)
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if given the now more generalised nature of GPU design, that a new version of Direct X couldn't just be implemented at the driver level.
 
Don't rush to celebrate, MS mentioned that DX12 will be available in W9 only by the way, so i think we won't see it running for another year.
 
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Well in that case a lot of AMDs presentation slides last year were massively over ambitious and misleading. Seeing as the conference was supposed to be about Hawaii and the launch of their new GPU, spending the whole time talking about Mantle. I haven't seen anywhere that's specifically stated you'll be buying into an alpha product.

I really can't be bothered with these threads any more but WHAT UTTER RUBBISH.

Again, they spent their whole time talking about Mantle at the Hawaii launch? Firstly, it wasn't a Hawaii launch, they launched a few cards and announced Hawaii but it most certainly wasn't a launch. Secondly, for a 1-2 hour thing, they mentioned Mantle, in passing, at the very end of the conference for about 2 minutes. So utter rubbish in "spending the whole time talking about Mantle". They barely said anything at all about Mantle and a relative launch of the rebranded 7000 series cards where they also announced the 290x was coming soon basically.

The APU 14 conference had much more Mantle speak, MOSTLY off camera, and the conference was a yearly event, had nothing directly to do with Mantle, most certainly wasn't all about Mantle, was mostly about HSA.

It would help if people stopped making things up, likewise at APU 14 AMD gave a list of dates for Mantle, they had given the Alpha release to Dice and a couple others, Beta was due around April this year, final was due around Oct/November. AS for promises of BF4 dates, Johan, and not AMD said the update was aiming for December. There has been no advertising, no launches of Mantle, no final products and anyone with half a brain realised a software company aiming for a date for a patch isn't final and is never final and almost always slip... and that was before you take into account the (then, and current) state of BF4.



As for DX12... frankly the thing that worries me most is how close it is. If MS have decided on a new direction for DX12 and to actually make a good API and they've decided on this direction in the past 2-3 months, I'm exceptionally worried if it comes out any time soon. It will be some rushed POS, maybe intentionally screwed up so they can pat themselves on the back for previously having held back for everyones benefit, and go back to doing so.

Hopefully launch of DX12 won't be any time remotely soon and they actually mean it when they say they want to improve it to be a great API. Of course, MS has said as much and attempted to fix the driver overhead MANY times in the past, in DX10, 11, 11.1 and 11.2 there are all things that are supposed to drastically improve it and most dev's find most of the fixes barely do anything.
 
wall of text

Who knows how long MS have been working on DX12? They might have come up with the idea last week or 2 years ago. Nothing has been said how this will come to the end users. DX11.2 might have been an addition while they were also completely re-writing DX.

I do love how it is bad news. You also say you can't be bothered with these threads any more but always join in.... :o
 
DM, it was IN Hawaii. You're right though it certainly was not a launch, it was a fiasco lol. If you cared to follow DX on Twitter or anything relating to it for that matter you'd know DX12 has been in the pipe line for quite some time. Just because they're announcing it now doesn't mean it's coming soon at all.

As for making things up, you are the Drunken Master of all that is made up. May I refer you to FreeSync.

You may now retort, or alternatively calm down :D


...no advertising lol. :D What ya' like :D
 
Who knows how long MS have been working on DX12? They might have come up with the idea last week or 2 years ago. Nothing has been said how this will come to the end users. DX11.2 might have been an addition while they were also completely re-writing DX.

I do love how it is bad news. You also say you can't be bothered with these threads any more but always join in.... :o

Funny that, because I haven't joined in for ages... and literally minutes after my first post on Mantle in pretty much months.... both of the usual suspects reply, with daft posts.

Firstly, I didn't say DX12 was bad news, neither did I say how long they'd been working on DX12. I specifically mentioned MS's turnaround on making the API lower level and removing overhead. THey could have been working on DX12 for the past 34 years, but if they took a new direction on it 2 weeks ago and deciding to make it lower level and focus on driver overhead, then that is 2 weeks work on the newer direction. THAT was my issue with the time scale, nothing else.

DM, it was IN Hawaii. You're right though it certainly was not a launch, it was a fiasco lol. If you cared to follow DX on Twitter or anything relating to it for that matter you'd know DX12 has been in the pipe line for quite some time. Just because they're announcing it now doesn't mean it's coming soon at all.

As for making things up, you are the Drunken Master of all that is made up. May I refer you to FreeSync.

You may now retort, or alternatively calm down :D


...no advertising lol. :D What ya' like :D

On dx12, as above, way to misinterpret. There has been zero noise on MS attempting to leverage lower overhead or massively rework DX for lower level access AT ALL throughout the entire development of DX12. The new direction has been taken VERY recently by MS. How long DX12 has been in the works doesn't matter at all, how long MS have been working on the new parts matters very very much. I'd be far happier if MS had been intending to make something "Mantle" like from the start of DX12 development but it's pretty clear to anyone that this isn't the case, or MS wouldn't have had to announce their large change in thinking very recently. DX12 with the usual updates to DX, + bodging in last second support for low level access sounds potentially catastrophic to me, being that it's MS and they rarely do anything beyond the minimum required while also completely misjudging the market they are aiming for(think about anything they've done recently, Windows RT, nope, Windows 8, nope, Surface, failure, Xbox one, got it completely wrong).

Okay to address some things, when called out on the BS you instead talk about nothing and ignore what you made up. Why not focus on that, AMD did not focus on or only speak about Mantle, it's literally a lie, nothing else. It was in Hawaii.... did you have a point here? MANY of AMD's launches for gpus(and I can't remember if it stretches back to ATi... if it did I only ever went to see cards at a Hotel in London :( ) and various other events have been in Hawaii, so, trying but failing to see a point.

Secondly disaster, again no, it was a disaster according to certain people because it was a terrible launch... yet you just admitted it wasn't a launch, therefore couldn't have been a disastrous launch? Because a lot of people with an agenda called something a launch, or a disaster, does not make it so. It was an event, they launched several products, which were available straight away, and announced a card that was coming soon(which it was), then right at the end said "on, and Mantle... AMD out" dropped the microphone or more realistically, turned off the stream. Because people WANTED it to be a launch and because the cards, without any launch info, weren't available immediately people decided it wasn't a good launch. There was no disaster, just a made up social media/forum crap storm based on events that never happened.

When the cards were launched, they were available, the end.

as for referring me to freesync, please prove where I was wrong? It's still meh/negligible difference at 90fps +, no one is rushing for it, the cost is insane and freesync is on it's way(for desktop, it's available on certain laptops already of course) because Nvidia couldn't patent something as basic as variable framerate... the things I said when it was "launched", which must have been a disaster because it went very quiet for a while afterwards and missed availability dates by a huge margin did it not?

But well done for failing to address anything in my post but attempt to deflect your blatant trolling with clearly incorrect and made up information... as per usual.
 
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What did I make up exactly? You do like to waffle don't you. All I can suggest is you take off your muggle lenses and watch the presentation in Hawaii again.

FreeSync? You still going on about that? God! :D

Seriously though, the 290 is a cracking card if you bag a good one, but the whole launch (the one that came shortly after AMDs presentation, that apparently wasn't a launch, and wasn't about Mantle?) was handled very poorly. We had AMD tweeting about pre-orders being available in different regions, yet with no clue as to the specification of the card, nothing at all. Keeping it close to the chest doesn't cut it! It's no wonder OCUK were letting people decide whether or not they still wanted their pre-orders lol. Turns out, it's not a bad card - but don't sugar coat everything DM, I was alive to see it for myself as everyone else was too :D
 
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