DirectX 12

GoogalyMoogaly · 28 Mar 2014 at 00:23

^^^ They make some interesting points, but they seem to forget that Johan replied to a tweet with a winking smiley, thus letting the cat out of the bag that Mantle and DX12 are one and the same.
I think that clearly overrides any AMD statements to the contrary!

opethdisciple · 28 Mar 2014 at 00:39

GoogalyMoogaly said:
^^^ They make some interesting points, but they seem to forget that Johan replied to a tweet with a winking smiley, thus letting the cat out of the bag that Mantle and DX12 are one and the same.
I think that clearly overrides any AMD statements to the contrary!

But currently Mantle doesnt work on Nvidia hardware.

triss · 28 Mar 2014 at 02:03

Winking smiley = a winking smiley nothing else tbh

Robert Hallock: DirectX 12 is Microsoft’s own creation

Since it was a direct question asked of him i'd assume he's didn't lie
If i've missed it and he is a liar about stuff please feel free to say

Gregster · 28 Mar 2014 at 02:41

Rusty0611 · 28 Mar 2014 at 02:47

andybird123 · 28 Mar 2014 at 07:20

LtMatt said:
Well this sucks. (although by the time DX12 reaches us, i expect most of us will have upgraded)

Source
http://www.hardware-360.com/directx-12-requires-new-graphics-cards-to-utilize-all-features/

It sucks that they are adding new features to a new API?
Would you really be expecting to be using the same hardware in 2 years time anyway?

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate anyway, acording to the nvidia white paper, conservative rasterisation in DX12 is a software solution, not a hardware one.

LtMatt · 28 Mar 2014 at 07:21

andybird123 said:
It sucks that they are adding new features to a new API?
Would you really be expecting to be using the same hardware in 2 years time anyway?

No it sucks that current gpu's won't support all the features. It sure wasn't mentioned during the all singing all dancing MS presentation at GDC.

LtMatt said:
although by the time DX12 reaches us, i expect most of us will have upgraded)

andybird123 · 28 Mar 2014 at 07:24

LtMatt said:
No it sucks that current gpu's won't support all the features. It sure wasn't mentioned during the all singing all dancing MS presentation at GDC.

Thats not true, several of the writeups on the day did mention that some new features would need new hardware

LtMatt · 28 Mar 2014 at 07:33

andybird123 said:
Thats not true, several of the writeups on the day did mention that some new features would need new hardware

None that i saw.

drunkenmaster · 28 Mar 2014 at 08:16

It was very much a delayed message, the first articles/live blogs of the first major DX12 talk didn't mention new unsupported features at all. Likewise Nvidia's digging at AMD, their 100% support for DX12 from all Fermi and forward cards vs AMD's whatever percent didn't mention that 100% doesn't actually support all of DX12 either.

That aside from Nvidia using support levels expected 18 months from now for themselves vs support levels today from AMD.

Gregster · 28 Mar 2014 at 10:08

andybird123 said:
Thats not true, several of the writeups on the day did mention that some new features would need new hardware

This.

I read an article minutes after the conference which clearly stated that DX12 was supported on current hardware but would miss out on a couple of additions. It even mentioned the additions were fairly minuscule and wasn't that a big of a thing.

pgi947 · 28 Mar 2014 at 10:40

I read that too, iirc it was also mentioned either earlier in this thread or one of the gtc threads at the time.

ubersonic · 28 Mar 2014 at 10:44

LtMatt said:
No it sucks that current gpu's won't support all the features.

When DX12 launches in two years time the R290/GTX780 will be two and a half years old, the GTX770(680) three years old and the HD79x0 four years old). Whenever a cutting edge game that uses loads of cutting edge D3D features has been released it has never been fully playable on flagship cards of that age without turning a few settings down. So even if all of the new features were usable on current cards you would most likely have to disable them anyway to get playable frame rates.

GoogalyMoogaly · 28 Mar 2014 at 10:54

Regarding the new features not supported by current hardware, that was sort of a no win wasn't it? I mean people complain that current hardware won't fully support all features of the new API, but if they did then people would likely complain that Microsft's new API after all these years doesn't offer any new features.

As for it not being made clear, I'm sure I read stuff saying that not all features would necessarily be available on all hardware. Not sure where I read it though, but I mostly just read what is posted on these forums, so it must've been mentioned here somewhere. Not sure by who and if it was on a slide or in a quote from a website.

spankingtexan · 28 Mar 2014 at 13:43

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Regarding the new features not supported by current hardware, that was sort of a no win wasn't it? I mean people complain that current hardware won't fully support all features of the new API, but if they did then people would likely complain that Microsft's new API after all these years doesn't offer any new features.

As for it not being made clear, I'm sure I read stuff saying that not all features would necessarily be available on all hardware. Not sure where I read it though, but I mostly just read what is posted on these forums, so it must've been mentioned here somewhere. Not sure by who and if it was on a slide or in a quote from a website.

Yeah I read something about it too and like you I think it was somewhere on these forums, just couldn't be bothered to search through looking for it again.

It's great that current cards will be compatible with DX12 and it was mentioned that the new DX12 features that need new hardware would not be that significant and older hardware would benefit from the new API main features. There are some people who will keep jumping into the thread and try to trash whatever MS and Nvidia do and we know who those people are.

TheRealDeal · 28 Mar 2014 at 13:48

spankingtexan said:
Yeah I read something about it too and like you I think it was somewhere on these forums, just couldn't be bothered to search through looking for it again.

It's great that current cards will be compatible with DX12 and it was mentioned that the new DX12 features that need new hardware were not that significant and older hardware would benefit from the new API main features. There are some people who will keep jumping into the thread and try to trash whatever MS and Nvidia do and we know who those people are.

I think i did see something about new features but i seen a hell of a lot more about Nvidia's 100% fermi onwards support. What it means as atm Nvidia have exactly 0% and so do amd when it comes to fully supporting dx12. Surely you can see there marketing was bending the truth at best. Nvidia's slides should have read we have a dx12 advantage over amd and that is we have more cards that partially support dx12.

opethdisciple · 28 Mar 2014 at 13:53

Intentional attempt to rile up the AMD brigade:

"Do you know what Mantle really is people? A prototype for DX12!"

Marine-RX179 · 28 Mar 2014 at 14:11

opethdisciple said:
Intentional attempt to rile up the AMD brigade:

"Do you know what Mantle really is people? A prototype for DX12!"

What exactly is "AMD brigade"?

So they got Mantle to use now (which didn't cost them extra money at all), and then with the option to use either Mantle or dx12 or both toward the end of 2015 or early 2016, and you are telling me they should be upset comparing to people have to wait another 18 months+ for dx12? Where's the logic in that?

LtMatt · 28 Mar 2014 at 14:14

Marine-RX179 said:
What exactly is "AMD brigade"?

So they got Mantle to use now (which didn't cost them extra money at all), and then with the option to use either Mantle or dx12 or both toward the end of 2015 or early 2016, and you are telling me they should be upset comparing to people have to wait another 18 months+ for dx12? Where's the logic in that?

Certainly makes a change from AMD Crew i suppose.

Regarding DX12 its really win win for AMD users. There's no other way to look at it. If its as good or better than Mantle then we've nothing to fear and it will be good for everyone.

Gregster · 28 Mar 2014 at 14:16

TheRealDeal said:
I think i did see something about new features but i seen a hell of a lot more about Nvidia's 100% fermi onwards support. What it means as atm Nvidia have exactly 0% and so do amd when it comes to fully supporting dx12. Surely you can see there marketing was bending the truth at best. Nvidia's slides should have read we have a dx12 advantage over amd and that is we have more cards that partially support dx12.

That is marketing though. nVidia have all DX11 cards capable of supporting DX12. It doesn't need to be stated as supporting every aspect of DX12 and the bits that I have seen that are missing, doesn't worry me anyway, even if I was to still using my Titan's when it is fully operational.

LtMatt said:
Regarding DX12 its really win win for AMD users. There's no other way to look at it. If its as good or better than Mantle then we've nothing to fear and it will be good for everyone.

With DX12 being Mantle, you have a point