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DirectX 12

Also that statement seems to suggest that AMD have ruled out or given up on multi-vendor support for Mantle.

I think it was to be expected that Mantle would be quicker and could react faster as it can be more specific to AMD hardware.
So Mantle has the advantage of being a bit faster and more reactive/responsive to changes as well as possibly being ported to Linux (which would help but not immediately mean games work on Linux).
Where as DirectX has the advantage that it supports a much much larger range of hardware.
Mantle will be backed by AMD where as DirectX 12 will be backed by Microsoft and mostly likely Nvidia and in all possibility Intel and maybe even AMD.

I guess the real question will be what developers decide to support. They may well use both or they might just use DirectX 12. I can't imagine too many will ignore their Nvidia (and Intel) customer base and just use Mantle. So I guess that's probably another plus to DirectX, it could well be the ONLY API a developer uses/supports where as Mantle is mostly likely to be an extra API they add in, IMHO.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Also that statement seems to suggest that AMD have ruled out or given up on multi-vendor support for Mantle.

I think it was to be expected that Mantle would be quicker and could react faster as it can be more specific to AMD hardware.
So Mantle has the advantage of being a bit faster and more reactive/responsive to changes as well as possibly being ported to Linux (which would help but not immediately mean games work on Linux).
Where as DirectX has the advantage that it supports a much much larger range of hardware.
Mantle will be backed by AMD where as DirectX 12 will be backed by Microsoft and mostly likely Nvidia and in all possibility Intel and maybe even AMD.

I guess the real question will be what developers decide to support. They may well use both or they might just use DirectX 12. I can't imagine too many will ignore their Nvidia (and Intel) customer base and just use Mantle. So I guess that's probably another plus to DirectX, it could well be the ONLY API a developer uses/supports where as Mantle is mostly likely to be an extra API they add in, IMHO.
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Unfortunately the reality is, and will be for the forseable future; "Yeah of course we support DirectX, but we also support Mantle". There will not be any outside vendor support for Mantle for some time, probably not before DirectX 12 games are here by the currently predicted Q4 2015. And even if there are, it will most likely be Intel HD variants or low powered discrete GPUs. For this reason Mantle starts to become more comparable to Glide. AMD is still closely screening companies that get access to Mantle, and I think it's predominantly in the long run only reducing its chances of getting the attention of the developers who could now potentially now be looking towards the next DirectX envelope. Regardless of whether or not it may be the better choice.
 
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jh30uk said:
Sick of off topic spam in non AMD/Mantle threads (know I am not alone).

I am going to fix this issue for myself right now with a few clicks.
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I have to say it's hilarious that someone posting an article titled "A closer look at Direct X" is deemed off topic, me responding to that post talking about Mantle AND Direct X is deemed off topic, yet your post which literally only mentions AMD/Mantle is both on topic and laughably you report off topic posts. When yours is the only one to exclude the word phrase DX12 in any form.

MJFrosty I presume the irony of people reporting posts is in reference to his completely off topic talking about Mantle post.

Because after complaining about the off topic, you mentioned Mantle more than me or Matt. PS I've reported like one post in the past decade and it wasn't one of yours.

Mantle for the record has indeed massively proven itself to be vastly superior, Nvidia are talking up "low level like optimisations" in DX11 drivers(which as far as I can tell amounts to 4fps in Thief which if, and only if, you make up AMD results puts them ahead... in reality it leaves them trailing the 290p in DX and 20% behind in Mantle in the averages. Without Nvidia's minimums where by AMD's have improved 25-40% under Mantle, it's unknown if Nvidia managed any improvement there or only at the higher end.

MS is now working on a low level API after being forced in to doing it, you think if Mantle sucked MS would be doing it, there would be literally no need to if there was no benefit. Pretty much all big devs(carmack included) have been screaming for a low level API for 4+ years.

Mentioning it akin to glide, wow, hyperbolic lying much. AMD fully support DX11.2, the past 2-3 years of architectures support DX12, future architectures will continue to support DX. If AMD ONLY supported Mantle, not DX and therefore sucked balls in 90% of none Mantle games it would be akin to the Glide situation. When AMD support every API out there used for gaming, and Mantle is an extra one with higher performance, there is nothing to lose. The comparison is laughably misguided.
 
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TBH until DX12 is released fully it will be hard to compare with mantle as neither is a 100% finished state.
Mantle may or may not be faster atm as its out there working but unless i'm mistaking DX12 isnt out for a good 9months plus
 
It's unsurprising Mantle "will be faster in some things", but again, it has that whole crux of compatibility.

I really can't see sustained support of Mantle when DX12's out, (Well, when DX12 becomes "mainstream")

I'm already surprised AMD's managed to get two games supporting Mantle out already (And there's games in the wings coming out with Mantle support), given how big an API is, yet TressFX (Like I said) didn't have sustained support :p
 
Mantle won't be properly viable competition because of its lack of compatibility.

That's always been the bottom line. You can dress it up how you like to.

If tomorrow came, and all of a sudden Nvidia's 6XX/7XX and Intels Iris Pro/HD4XXX suddenly supported Mantle, then it's a completely different story.
 
Corpus was adamant that developers will see value in adopting Mantle even today, with D3D12 on the horizon and no explicit support for Linux or future AMD GPUs.
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Does that indicate AMD GPU's might not well be supported in the future?
 
triss said:
Does that indicate AMD GPU's might not well be supported in the future?
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I actually can't understand what it's saying to be honest, is it saying DX12 has no linux support? (Which is somewhat quirky, given you know, Mantle has no linux support either, and even if it did, Origin lacks a native Linux client, so your biggest Mantle pusher would be rendered moot)

And I wouldn't call something over a year away on the horizon either.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I have to say it's hilarious that someone posting an article titled "A closer look at Direct X" is deemed off topic, me responding to that post talking about Mantle AND Direct X is deemed off topic, yet your post which literally only mentions AMD/Mantle is both on topic and laughably you report off topic posts. When yours is the only one to exclude the word phrase DX12 in any form.

MJFrosty I presume the irony of people reporting posts is in reference to his completely off topic talking about Mantle post.

Because after complaining about the off topic, you mentioned Mantle more than me or Matt. PS I've reported like one post in the past decade and it wasn't one of yours.

Mantle for the record has indeed massively proven itself to be vastly superior, Nvidia are talking up "low level like optimisations" in DX11 drivers(which as far as I can tell amounts to 4fps in Thief which if, and only if, you make up AMD results puts them ahead... in reality it leaves them trailing the 290p in DX and 20% behind in Mantle in the averages. Without Nvidia's minimums where by AMD's have improved 25-40% under Mantle, it's unknown if Nvidia managed any improvement there or only at the higher end.

MS is now working on a low level API after being forced in to doing it, you think if Mantle sucked MS would be doing it, there would be literally no need to if there was no benefit. Pretty much all big devs(carmack included) have been screaming for a low level API for 4+ years.

Mentioning it akin to glide, wow, hyperbolic lying much. AMD fully support DX11.2, the past 2-3 years of architectures support DX12, future architectures will continue to support DX. If AMD ONLY supported Mantle, not DX and therefore sucked balls in 90% of none Mantle games it would be akin to the Glide situation. When AMD support every API out there used for gaming, and Mantle is an extra one with higher performance, there is nothing to lose. The comparison is laughably misguided.
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What does supporting DX11 have to do with Mantle?

3Dfx supported directX. It's currently a proprietary API, it couldn't be much more comparable. The only reason you're up on the defensive is because Glide failed so you're blindly resenting my comparison. Don't hate , chap :)

Albeit 3Dfx performance under DX was worse than what other vendors were offering at the time. The same could be said for current Mantle titles. Thief for example. I do wish you would be more rational DM. It's not as though there is any grounds for you to knock the comparison really.

Two proprietary APIs, one of which is a branch of the same API that excelled Glide, one is currently limited to selected hardware and a batch of releases, the other is not.

The rest of your reasoning is speculative. I'm not arguing with you, just relaying the facts :)
 
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Martini1991 said:
Mantle has no linux support either, and even if it did, Origin lacks a native Linux client, so your biggest Mantle pusher would be rendered moot
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Origin=EA=Crytek=Linux support.

Shot in the dark here, but I'm betting it's Crytek's turn with working closely with AMD porting Mantle to Linux.;)
 
New GPUs needed to fully support it

DirectX 12 will need better hardware support and it will happen in future chips. This is what Nvidia VP or Developer relations Ashu Rege and Yury Uralsky, Director of developer relations at Nvidia, told Fudzilla.
The DirectX 12 API on the other hand will work on Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell and it will enable a radical reduction in submission overhead, as well as better scalability on multicore systems. The goal is a console-like execution environment, a "close to metal" approach that we saw with AMD's Mantle API.

You will need new hardware, next generation hardware to support some of the fixed function features that will become a part of DirectX 12. Nvidia says it will be necessary to “embrace the latest GPU architectural achievements.” In other words future GPUs from Nvidia and AMD will end up having hardware support for the full DirectX 12 feature set and of course these features will be hardware accelerated.

On the other hand the DirectX 12 API will work on Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell. The API is the low level console like access to close to the metal API. We know if might be confusing, as DirectX and DirectX API are two completely separate things that can easily get mixed up.

DirectX 11 API is different from DirectX 11.3, the current revision of the DirectX hardware requirement and this is what actually is making all the confusion. Trough time DirectX 11 evolved to DirectX 11.3, adding some more features to the hardware and many didn’t realize that direct X 11 API has a different path from DirectX 11.3 hardware set.

Maxwell is likely going to get these hardware requirements and be fully compatible with DirectX 12 hardware requirement but from what we know this might mean that faster Maxwell might end up DirectX 12 hardware support while first generation Maxwell GM107 28nm Geforce GTX 750 cards won’t. This is something that we need to wait and see but based on information that we gathered, this is likely to happen.

Pascal 2016 stacked RAM Geforce will end up having full hardware support for DirectX 12 and so will upcoming Maxwell products that we expect later this year.
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http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/34353
 
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MjFrosty said:
As for the TechReport article, the proof will obviously be in the results, albeit we are a way off. It's hard to make any direct comparison. We've got drivers from NV improving performance when Thief is pretty NV dominant anyway. Mantle so far hasn't proven itself to be vastly better than DX11, so I'll reserve judgement on anything else for now.
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
TH tests Thief with Mantle:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thief-mantle-benchmarks,3773.html

An FX4170 just about matches a Core i7 4770K!

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Thief seems to be quite lightly threaded,and with Mantle anyone with an AMD CPU or an older Intel one is going to see decent gains,even with lower end cards.

There are plenty of people using Core2 quads and older Core i3 CPUs for example who are going to see a gain.

DX12,Mantle,etc are going to see the biggest gains with older systems and budget systems - it means they can get another round of graphics card upgrades.

With the recession this is good news,as people can spend less money on upgrades. Instead of having to buy a new system,they can plonk in a newer graphics card only.

Remember,the vast majority of gamers worldwide are not hardware enthusiasts,and do not upgrade hardware as much as people on UK based computer forums like OcUK.
 
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