DirectX 12

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:09

pgi947 said:
I don't see why they would? Windows 7 is already by far and away an inferior gaming os up next to windows 8/8.1. Not to mention an old os as far as they're concerned. I can see win 8+ getting dx12 love, nothing below. W9 will likely be the same back end/kernel as 8/8.1.

My windows 8 update pack cost me £25 direct from microsoft, if £25 is too expensive you're on the wrong gaming platform I'm afraid.

ok this is not about me, i paid for my windows 7, just saying.
but the point is, are we looking to have dx12 as a default api used on all games ? if yes then this wont happen untill it has about 40-50% user base, otherwise devs wont even look at it.
but if you are looking at a couple games per year for the next 4-5 years like for Mantle, then yea why not, make it windows 9 exclusive, put DRM account based, and lets buy win9 and all wait up untill the user base gets the treshold needed for devs to start using it, which wont be 2016 not 2017, or 2018, all these years will be few financed games by microsoft or nvidia each year.

PhysicsMan94 · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:14

AlamoX said:
but the point is, are we looking to have dx12 as a default api used on all games ? if yes then this wont happen untill it has about 40-50% user base, otherwise devs wont even look at it.

What are you trying to say here? You do realise that basically all PC games use the DirectX API in one form or the other, and all modern titles use DirectX 11 (there is no reason not to linger on an older version if you're releasing a new game). So why do you think that DirectX 12 is not going to get many developers using it?

GoogalyMoogaly · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:18

AlamoX said:
you see thats the probleme with you, i am talking about how microsoft could prevent all of us from benefiting from DX12, even if i get windows 9, and it has DX12, it will not be adopted by devs because the user base would be fragmented between 7,8, and 9, the DRM rumored about windows 9 will make it even harder to finish the migration toward 9, making windows 7 stick around even longer, and DX12 user base evolving even slower, resulting of me and you and the rest of us buying windows 9 for DX12, while devs keep developing on DX11, because they dont give a crap about 15-20% user base.
windows 8 being lighter on resources doesnt change the fact that 0 game uses DX11.2, because win 8 have around 6% user base.
but you feel my argument is hiding something about Mantle and AMD, and you just can't help yourself but to deflect to AMD, what can i say suit yourself.

I can't imagine Mantle currently has a massive user base, all Nvidia and Intel users are out and so are any AMD owners with 6000 series cards or older. Yet it seems there are around 47 developers that are willing to use Mantle.

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:25

PhysicsMan94 said:
What are you trying to say here? You do realise that basically all PC games use the DirectX API in one form or the other, and all modern titles use DirectX 11 (there is no reason not to linger on an older version if you're releasing a new game). So why do you think that DirectX 12 is not going to get many developers using it?

the same reason, no dev is using 11.2, and thats my point the next 5 years probably, the majority of games developed will be DX11 not DX12.
i dont know what you mean actualy i am a bit confused

Deceptor · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:26

What's so bad about the DRM in Win9? All it does is tie your motherboard to the license, and if you change hardware it'll just activate on that hardware and deactivate the old. Basically the same without the windows key. Plus it'll be nice not to have those key stickers on the PC anymore.

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:27

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I can't imagine Mantle currently has a massive user base, all Nvidia and Intel users are out and so are any AMD owners with 6000 series cards or older. Yet it seems there are around 47 developers that are willing to use Mantle.

i swear this is not about AMD or Mantle, stop deflecting, can't you have a discusiion about a topic without trying to make it an argument red VS green ?

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:32

Deceptor said:
What's so bad about the DRM in Win9? All it does is tie your motherboard to the license, and if you change hardware it'll just activate on that hardware and deactivate the old. Basically the same without the windows key. Plus it'll be nice not to have those key stickers on the PC anymore.

yes nothing bad for the OS, but my opinion is the DRM will undoubtedly, slow the migration toward win9, and in the end the adoption of DX12, that was basicly my orignal post that all, these windows 9 news, made me less excited about DX12, because everything seem to make the spread of the OS using DX12 slower.
point of view that i find absolutly valide, yet a lot of ppl disagree on, probably because they think i have a hiden agenda with the red team and all that....

Ayahuasca · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:34

You mentioned mantle yourself in the post he quoted :confused:

Dear me this will just spiral out of control as usual, AlamoX give us some proof to back up these made up percentages/dates instead of just talking guff.

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:39

Ayahuasca said:
You mentioned mantle yourself in the post he quoted

Dear me this will just spiral out of control as usual, AlamoX give us some proof to back up these made up percentages/dates instead of just talking guff.

what post are you talking about ? i dont recall bringing Mantle up at all

Ayahuasca · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:42

AlamoX said:
but if you are looking at a couple games per year for the next 4-5 years like for Mantle

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:56

that was 17 post after you brought up Mantle, when it was not the topic, and what i said there was negative meaning would you rather have a default API or just couple games per year like Mantle,
i know you went up looking and you didnt find Mantle mention untill you brought it up, you felt silly and you linked the only thing you could find.
i understand

Ayahuasca · 13 Jul 2014 at 01:59

No you're telling people not to bring Mantle up then you're making comparisons with Mantle yourself. You're the only one looking silly here.

Everything you've said is just completely made up and the only way you seem to be able to back it up is by saying it's just my opinion.

I know you said you struggle with English so it may be hard for you to get your point across correctly but making up dates and percentages from the top of your head to back yourself up isn't going to give you much credibility is it.

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2014 at 02:08

Ayahuasca said:
No you're telling people not to bring Mantle up then you're making comparisons with Mantle yourself. You're the only one looking silly here.

Everything you've said is just completely made up and the only way you seem to be able to back it up is by saying it's just my opinion.

this is the last comment i make to you, you are a deceitful person, and never heard anything constructive from you in previous discussions we had, other than being Nvidia emotional rollercoaster.
just ignore me next time.

Ayahuasca · 13 Jul 2014 at 02:12

AlamoX said:
this is the last comment i make to you, you are a deceitful person, and never heard anything constructive from you in previous discussions we had, other than being Nvidia emotional rollercoaster.
just ignore me next time.

Oh the irony.

kazuya1337 · 13 Jul 2014 at 04:40

Over 1300 posts in 2 months, you're either huge expert who's made an awful lot of constructive posts or a huge troll _)

LtMatt · 13 Jul 2014 at 10:03

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Isn't some level of Windows 7 support ending soon?
If it is then it seems quite possible Microsoft won't release DX12 for it, or the new version of IE.

I also can't see Linux being a serious gaming OS any time soon, it has virtually no back-catalog. I'm sure I'm not the only one that plays other games than recent releases.

If Microsoft refuses to bring DX12 to Windows 7, that's good for Mantle. :cool:

As above not happy about the monthly fee. I think I'll pass if that's their plan.

PhysicsMan94 said:
That is not true, the FAQ below on Microsoft's developer blog on DirectX 12 states differently:

This suggests that Direct3D 12 game development may actually be happening right now, or at least very soon, given that they are saying it could be in games by the end of next year.

EDIT - Apologies, I am mistaken. It would seem that this blog post actually indicates that most game developers will be able to start using D3D12 in games starting end of next year; however there is an early access program. But, anyway, that still means we'll be seeing D3D12 based games in 2016-17.

By which time we'll be on Mantle 3.0 I'd imagine. Interesting times ahead for all.

Silent_Scone · 13 Jul 2014 at 10:09

lol they won't bring DX12 to Windows 7, least it's not likely. Doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to Mantle really, or at least nominally.

Look at it this way, it's equally just as likely that Windows 7 Mantle support will dwindle, it's difficult to support multiple OS equally when it comes to API. You may even find that some developers in the not so distant future will actually choose themselves to drop Mantle support for Windows 7

LtMatt · 13 Jul 2014 at 10:14

MjFrosty said:
lol they won't bring DX12 to Windows 7, least it's not likely. Doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to Mantle really, or at least nominally.

Look at it this way, it's equally just as likely that Windows 7 Mantle support will dwindle, it's difficult to support multiple OS equally when it comes to API. You may even find that some developers in the not so distant future will actually choose themselves to drop Mantle support for Windows 7

It certainly does, its a key competitive advantage to Mantle. Mantle will continue to support Windows 7 for a long time. AMD know DX12 won't be coming to it, so they will use that to their advantage.

Silent_Scone · 13 Jul 2014 at 10:15

LtMatt said:
By which time we'll be on Mantle 3.0 I'd imagine. Interesting times ahead for all.

lol, steady on. Get 1.0 out first

LtMatt said:
It certainly does, its a key competitive advantage to Mantle. Mantle will continue to support Windows 7 for a long time. AMD know DX12 won't be coming to it, so they will use that to their advantage.

How can you possibly say that? Like I said, it's not even about 'Mantle' supporting it. It's more down to the developers, and I bet you your two 290s this time next year a majority will choose not to.

Also, I've heard from several sources that Win9 will be a free upgrade.

Gregster · 13 Jul 2014 at 10:15

I wouldn't read too much about a subscription service and it was just a whisper being bandied about. I often wonder if these rumors get started by in-house employee's, just to get a feel for what people think. If you look at GPU prices prior to launch and even in early stages, they are generally close to the launch prices.

As far as DX12 goes, why wouldn't game devs code for both DX11 and DX12? They already do this/did this for other DX variants.