DirectX 12

[AlamoX]

DX12 will be the main selling point for Windows 9. There is no saying it won't be available for Windows 8.1, but to write it off already seems a little negative. I loved Windows 7 and it was a massive step forward and snappier than Vista and I felt Windows 8 UI wasn't for me. After recently upgrading, I am so pleased I did and bring on DX12 I say. I am willing to bet money that game devs already have the beta for Windows 9/DX12 or very close to it and will be working with it to get games ready for DX12. Whether that is on Xbone and PC or both remains to be seen.

that's the probleme, microsoft always used DX as a selling point by linking it to version of windows, and it never worked imo.
the state of affairs of DX12 could change completly if it's windows 7 compatible, we will see games DX12 from 2016/2017, and everyone will be happy.
but if they make it windows 9 exclusive or even add windows 8 it wont matter, and DX12 will take up 2 to 3 years to be adopted, who is here and would be excited that only in 2020 games developers will start using dx12 as a default API, no one, it's too far away.
windows 8 doesnt count because 6-7% to add to windows 9, that if they set the DRM they are talking about will slow the adoption even further, let's not lie to ourselves, really a lot of gamers do not use geniun version of windows, but since they are going to make it like steam, you log in to activate and linked to your motherboard, seriously a lot of gamers wont follow, and we will end up stuck with DX11.0 for another 5 years.
this is not about windows 9 good or bad, or DX12, this just how long it would take for DX12 to be used, if they really care about gaming, they would put it on win 7 and figure out a way to sell win9, but i strongly doubt it, it's stupid and makes me angry, why take the gaming industry evolution hostage for them to be able to sell windows....and then you have ppl asking why does ppl hate microsoft...

DX11.2 is good and usefull, yet no one use it, why because of microsoft.
and the same is going to happen to DX12, it could be great but still no one will use it for many years, if microsoft decides to screw it up, thats all my point is about.

 

[Ayahuasca]

So it seems your main issue with DX12 is gamers who don't want to pay for Windows should mean Microsoft just put it on 7 to let all the scroungers get it for free

Brilliant logic once again.

 

[Boomstick777]

If it is, gawd knows what will happen to the future of PC gaming, as I can't see many people legitimately paying each month for it.

Linux.

 

[AlamoX]

So it seems your main issue with DX12 is gamers who don't want to pay for Windows should mean Microsoft just put it on 7 to let all the scroungers get it for free

Brilliant logic once again.

my point is clear, but you can turn it around the way you like, fact is, if microsoft doesnt pout dx12 on win7, we all stand to lose, weird that some ppl doesnt see it.

 

[Ayahuasca]

my point is clear, but you can turn it around the way you like, fact is, if microsoft doesnt pout dx12 on win7, we all stand to lose, weird that some ppl doesnt see it.

I'm not turning your point though am I, that's exactly what you've said above. It doesn't need putting on 7 to succeed, the amount of people who've already adopted Windows 8 after saying things like "lol just a tablet OS" is massive. Windows 8 in certain games gives a nice boost to performance over 7 as well.

Can I ask why you seem to think everything but AMD/mantle is destined to fail?

 

[opethdisciple]

that's the probleme, microsoft always used DX as a selling point by linking it to version of windows, and it never worked imo.
the state of affairs of DX12 could change completly if it's windows 7 compatible, we will see games DX12 from 2016/2017, and everyone will be happy.
but if they make it windows 9 exclusive or even add windows 8 it wont matter, and DX12 will take up 2 to 3 years to be adopted, who is here and would be excited that only in 2020 games developers will start using dx12 as a default API, no one, it's too far away.
windows 8 doesnt count because 6-7% to add to windows 9, that if they set the DRM they are talking about will slow the adoption even further, let's not lie to ourselves, really a lot of gamers do not use geniun version of windows, but since they are going to make it like steam, you log in to activate and linked to your motherboard, seriously a lot of gamers wont follow, and we will end up stuck with DX11.0 for another 5 years.
this is not about windows 9 good or bad, or DX12, this just how long it would take for DX12 to be used, if they really care about gaming, they would put it on win 7 and figure out a way to sell win9, but i strongly doubt it, it's stupid and makes me angry, why take the gaming industry evolution hostage for them to be able to sell windows....and then you have ppl asking why does ppl hate microsoft...

DX11.2 is good and usefull, yet no one use it, why because of microsoft.
and the same is going to happen to DX12, it could be great but still no one will use it for many years, if microsoft decides to screw it up, thats all my point is about.

The only point I disagree with, is that it is not going to take 6 years for Dx12 games to appear.

You can already see the effects of the next gen consoles. And they haven’t even been out for 6 months yet. For example, the next COD looks like for the first time in it's history, it could over take the Battle Field series in terms of graphics!

That’s got to be down to the next gen consoles.

---

I think it's a shame if Dx12 doesn’t come to Win7, but I wouldn’t be surprised. They've done it before so are more likely to do it again.

As far as I’m concerned my gaming system I keep up-to-date, so Win9 will probably go on there from launch. (Although I did wait a year until 8.1 to upgrade from 7 as I didn’t like metro)

Also it's £70 for a windows license. It's not exactly a lot of money considering the cost for the hardware etc....

 

[Orangey]

I will not pay a monthly fee for Windows. I'll jump to Linux and shill for OpenGL.

 

[triss]

I will not pay a monthly fee for Windows. I'll jump to Linux and shill for OpenGL.

I think the majority of user's would join you, Is the sub based o/s set in stone or just a idea they floated?

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Isn't some level of Windows 7 support ending soon?
If it is then it seems quite possible Microsoft won't release DX12 for it, or the new version of IE.

I also can't see Linux being a serious gaming OS any time soon, it has virtually no back-catalog. I'm sure I'm not the only one that plays other games than recent releases.

 

[AlamoX]

I'm not turning your point though am I, that's exactly what you've said above. It doesn't need putting on 7 to succeed, the amount of people who've already adopted Windows 8 after saying things like "lol just a tablet OS" is massive. Windows 8 in certain games gives a nice boost to performance over 7 as well.

Can I ask why you seem to think everything but AMD/mantle is destined to fail?

you see thats the probleme with you, i am talking about how microsoft could prevent all of us from benefiting from DX12, even if i get windows 9, and it has DX12, it will not be adopted by devs because the user base would be fragmented between 7,8, and 9, the DRM rumored about windows 9 will make it even harder to finish the migration toward 9, making windows 7 stick around even longer, and DX12 user base evolving even slower, resulting of me and you and the rest of us buying windows 9 for DX12, while devs keep developing on DX11, because they dont give a crap about 15-20% user base.
windows 8 being lighter on resources doesnt change the fact that 0 game uses DX11.2, because win 8 have around 6% user base.
but you feel my argument is hiding something about Mantle and AMD, and you just can't help yourself but to deflect to AMD, what can i say suit yourself.

 

[tommybhoy]

I will not pay a monthly fee for Windows. I'll jump to Linux and shill for OpenGL.

I think the majority of user's would join you

If W9=monthly fee, W8 will be the last money MS makes from my pocket in regards to a gaming PC OS.

MS need to be careful on all fronts regarding DX12 OS employment and/or a monthly OS fee(if god forbid DX12 is W9 exclusive), it has implications due to AMD's Mantle.

AMD's Mantle isn't OS tied, it would see increased Mantle adoption=higher gpu sales, which could either mean Nvidia Mantle adoption, or Nvidia's own api, but that would mean further fragmentation imo.

Nvidia/AMD really should sit down and discuss all matters on the gpu front and for once collaborate equally/fairly in regards to future gaming or risk the worst if they let MS turn to monthly fees, as AAA title gamers will look elsewhere.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

... and DX12 will take up 2 to 3 years to be adopted, who is here and would be excited that only in 2020 games developers will start using dx12 as a default API, no one, it's too far away.

...

That is not true, the FAQ below on Microsoft's developer blog on DirectX 12 states differently:

Q: When will I be able to get my hands on DirectX 12?
A: We are targeting Holiday 2015 games.

This suggests that Direct3D 12 game development may actually be happening right now, or at least very soon, given that they are saying it could be in games by the end of next year.


EDIT - Apologies, I am mistaken. It would seem that this blog post actually indicates that most game developers will be able to start using D3D12 in games starting end of next year; however there is an early access program. But, anyway, that still means we'll be seeing D3D12 based games in 2016-17.

 

[opethdisciple]

If this idea of subscription based windows 9 is to counter piracy surely this wont work.

Pirates will just crack the software or simply turn off the phone home feature.

It wont work.

Where has this subscription idea come from? I’m fairly sure Microsoft wouldn’t dare go subscription based.

Or is this just rumours getting mixed up in all the Chinese whispers and popping out the other end as something misconstrued.

 

[humbug]

Win 9 looks nice. Now just to hope its not a subscription service and ms kick out some early adopter upgrade pricing like they did with win 8

If they do i will be spamming AMD's inbox to get on with this.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Planning-Open-Source-GameWorks-Competitor-Mantle-Linux

Here you go. I will jog through now and give an exact time

 

[AlamoX]

That is not true, the FAQ below on Microsoft's developer blog on DirectX 12 states differently:



This suggests that Direct3D 12 game development may actually be happening right now, or at least very soon, given that they are saying it could be in games by the end of next year.

ofc microsoft blog would say otherwise, they said during CES or what was it when they announced DX12, they said DX12 userbase will be 70%, but thats just marketing BS.
how on earth can microsoft have 70% user base, if they make it windows 9 exclusive.
1-make windows 9 free, not gonna happen
2-make it win7/8/9 compatible not gonna happen
3-put different versions of DX12 on win7, with BS features just to call it DX12, while major features than everyone is waiting for stays windows 9 exlusive.
4-they forgot to put a time table of the migration projection process ( this is what i was refering to earlier that it will be even slower than i excpeted it to be, in light of the new DRM planned)
5-70% user base is BS

windows 8 been released in august 2012, now 2 years later 0 games use DX11.2, and 6% user base, is DX12 and windows 9 is that far away from this fate ? why ? they certainly seem to be heading in the same direction.
i am still optimistic by saying that 2-3 years after windows 9 would have about 50% user base for it to be considered by devs, puting us 2018-2019, then 2020 for a default API status

 

[pgi947]

my point is clear, but you can turn it around the way you like, fact is, if microsoft doesnt pout dx12 on win7, we all stand to lose, weird that some ppl doesnt see it.

I don't see why they would? Windows 7 is already by far and away an inferior gaming os up next to windows 8/8.1. Not to mention an old os as far as they're concerned. I can see win 8+ getting dx12 love, nothing below. W9 will likely be the same back end/kernel as 8/8.1.

My windows 8 update pack cost me £25 direct from microsoft, if £25 is too expensive you're on the wrong gaming platform I'm afraid.

 

[humbug]

I don't see why they would? Windows 7 is already by far and away an inferior gaming os up next to windows 8/8.1. Not to mention an old os as far as they're concerned. I can see win 8+ getting dx12 love, nothing below. W9 will likely be the same back end/kernel as 8/8.1.

My windows 8 update pack cost me £25 direct from microsoft, if £25 is too expensive you're on the wrong gaming platform I'm afraid.

If you don't have Windows 7 it will cost you £100 for 8.1

 

[PhysicsMan94]

If you don't have Windows 7 it will cost you £100 for 8.1

Or £0.00 for 8.1 Pro from DreamSpark Premium

 

[Ayahuasca]

you see thats the probleme with you, i am talking about how microsoft could prevent all of us from benefiting from DX12, even if i get windows 9, and it has DX12, it will not be adopted by devs because the user base would be fragmented between 7,8, and 9, the DRM rumored about windows 9 will make it even harder to finish the migration toward 9, making windows 7 stick around even longer, and DX12 user base evolving even slower, resulting of me and you and the rest of us buying windows 9 for DX12, while devs keep developing on DX11, because they dont give a crap about 15-20% user base.
windows 8 being lighter on resources doesnt change the fact that 0 game uses DX11.2, because win 8 have around 6% user base.
but you feel my argument is hiding something about Mantle and AMD, and you just can't help yourself but to deflect to AMD, what can i say suit yourself.

I'm not deflecting anything onto AMD, I am pleased they did what they did as it pushed MS to get a move on.

I was just pointing out it seems like you think everything is going to fail but can't give any proof as to why. All this it won't be adopted till 2020 crap is just pure rubbish on your part.

 

[pgi947]

Should have snapped it up earlier then, the offer was on for long enough...still, £100 isn't all that bad, especially when I can find it for £46