Discussion On The ATI Radeon 5*** Series Before They Have Been Released Thread

[cman]

I just wrote that, to see the reaction from the ATI FANBOYS.

So, I came to the conclusion that the ATI FANBOYS support ATI until death.

Not a fanboy. 8800GTS 512 in my machine.

 

[Nelly]

Something has been said on the 4870x2's, OcUK confirmed in another thread they have gone EOL.

Makes sense with AMD/ATI bringing out the 5xxx series, must be at least on par with a 4870X2.

 

[AMG]

Na I never called it that, AMD have done something major to the RV770 as pointed out there are differences quite big onces, and physical onces as well, I think I should have said took the RV770 back and redone it pretty much

Nvida however you take the heatsink off a 8800, 9800 , gts250 what do you see? that is re branding

however Nvida can state that the chip works and well, there is no argument there

 

[muggs]

so i saw that very interesting tessellation vid, i dont know much tbh but does this mean tessellation is the new AA in dx11??

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

The way it's going we are not going to see the 5870x2 before december

unless it comes early

 

[=VTA=MANFACE]

ATI to the rescue.

 

[kylew]

so i saw that very interesting tessellation vid, i dont know much tbh but does this mean tessellation is the new AA in dx11??

Then surely you didn't watch the video if you think tessellation is the 'new AA'.

 

[JBuk]

so i saw that very interesting tessellation vid, i dont know much tbh but does this mean tessellation is the new AA in dx11??

Nope, it's a way of subdiving viewable polygons efficiently so 3d models look more organic and smoother rather than blocky

 

[tdream]

You mean the type of innovation it takes to rebrand the same GPU?

8800GT to 8800GTS to a 9800GT to a 9800GTX to a 9800GTX+ to a GTS250 to a GTX260M and GTX280M?

I fail to see how an 8800GTX is different from a GTX260/275/280/285 besides them adding more of the same?

I'm not complaining about the GT200 series GPUs, but to say they're innovative is utter nonsense. ATi added more to their cores between R600 and RV770 than nVidia has between G80 and GT200s.

You couldn't even argue that nVidia have been more innovative. Quite the opposite really, they seem only interested in getting their own way and if that includes stifling innovation, then they'll do it.

They gimped DX10, then spread propaganda about DX10.1 even though it was obviously beneficial.

It doesn't take a fanboy to realise nVidia are quite negative with their actions.

No wonder MS have reformed DX10.1 to 11. There's nothing nVidia could really do without themselves looking foolish with regards to DX11. They just have to nod and follow through.

I reckon DX10.1 and 11 are what was originally in mind for 10. A lot of people already suspect that 10.1 is the original DX10 before nVidia threw their hissy fit to get it changed.

Again, this isn't anti nVidia pro ATi, it's anti nVidia for arguably valid reasons.

You'd have to be an idiot to think nVidia isn't a slimy greasy company and even more of an idiot to condone their actions. With every new bit of info that keeps coming out about their underhanded actions is one step closer to them getting slapped with an anti-competative lawsuit. Yet they're the first to cry foul when they think they're being wronged.

Agree wholeheartily!

 

[tmaxxthomson]

but with tesselation, being that it makes models look smoother and less blocky, it then defeats the need for AA?

 

[Monkeynut]

but with tesselation, being that it makes models look smoother and less blocky, it then defeats the need for AA?

The edges of models would still have jaggies though, so AA is still needed.

 

[tmaxxthomson]

yeah. but i can still see jaggies not being as bad, so a lot less AA will be required xD thats how i see it from the previews ive watched

 

[Hairybudda]

Tesselation and anti-aliasing are completely unrelated, a tesselator will subdivide a primitive into multiple primitives. For example take a square and plot a point in the middle, now divide the square horizontally and vertically through this point and you have 4 squares. This is tesselation (although it's probably going to be implemented with displacement maps or something, it's been a while since i read up on graphics standards). Anti aliasing is taking a hard edge and blending it with what is around that edge so as to not make the edge noticable, AA will be less and less uselful in gaming as resolutions go up and your eyes can't tell the difference.

 

[gurusan]

I still can't stand gaming with less than 4xAA and I game at 2048x1152 on a 23" monitor....

 

[D D Danneh]

yeah. but i can still see jaggies not being as bad, so a lot less AA will be required xD thats how i see it from the previews ive watched

The edges will be more rounded, but there will still be jaggies. As an example:

It's not a very good example, but say the first line is normal without AA, the second is tesselated and the third is tesselated with AA. Tesselation doesn't inherently help with jaggies, it just makes the jaggies into a more irregular, smoother pattern, but AA helps make them less visible.

 

[kylew]

yeah. but i can still see jaggies not being as bad, so a lot less AA will be required xD thats how i see it from the previews ive watched

Jaggies are pixel based. Tessellation has nothing to do with AA at all. It won't improve the apperance of jagged edges. If anything it could make them more apparent with the increase of more organic shapes.

When an object is completely vertical or horizontal to the camera/view, jaggies don't appear, the more something is towards 45 degrees, the worse jagged edges appear.

A circular object with tessellation will be completely circular but without AA will be covered in jaggies.

The purpose of tesselation is to dynamically increase the information of an object without performance being affected.

Take a circular shape, but not a circle. Say a decagon, It's easier to render a decagon with 10 sides than it is to render a completely smooth circle with no noticable segments.

Tesselation takes a decagon for example, and 'sub-divides' it up and adds a lot more segments to it to give it a far smoother appearance in terms of geometry. This makes it easier to model for games, you can let the tesselation engine take over and generate any required level of detail without having to make multiple models.

It means faster performance and better looking modelling.

Tesselated objects are still subject to aliasing though, it's about geometry not pixel based images.

 

[JBuk]

Here's something I've just made to try and show the difference between anti aliasing and tessellation

Objects polygons are subdivided (this is a very simple diagram btw as there are various tessellation methods)
this makes the objects look more natural and organic rather that square

No antialiasing , the ouline pixels of the models are jagged and blocky

With antialiasing , the outlines ar nice and smooth
notice how the left side model still has a sqaure looking unnatural shape

 

[braveheart]

both AMD 5xxx and Nvidia GF3xxx will get DX11 but it will make few games with DX11 and then later 2010 it may get more DX11 games to come up

 

[titaniumx3]

Haven't ATI had a tesselation like feature in their hards since the Radeon 8000 series? Forgot what its called now.

 

[Robert]

Trueform