Distasteful vegan TV ad

[Lopéz]

There's not much reasoned debate to be had with people who excuse mutilating animals is there really.

And there you go again. You just cannot help yourself; you are unable to separate emotion from logic or reason and therefore discussing this topic with you is futile.

People with your outlook are the reason that vegans get such bad press.

 

[Lopéz]

The team meat dinosaurs on here won't be changed as they lack the ability to question anything,they probably donate to save the cute furry animal charity in Africa and then tuck into their dead purchases.
They would fit perfectly into an orwellian dystopian society, blindly non questioning robots in human form without the emotional depth or intellect to grasp right and wrong.
Oxygen theives,let's just pin our hopes on future generations

I know this isn't Speaker's Corner, but honestly some of these posts are really embarrassing.

 

[andybird123]

Sorry but I don't see anything to support that the studies done by the leading health organisations I have quoted above are influenced in any way by religious thought.

I'm not even sure which religions advocate veganism, the only one I can think of that comes close is Buddhism?



Again, not sure what this is based upon, but it's still largely irrelevant as we no longer have a necessity to do so.

It's literally back like 1 or two pages, if I can be bothered when at computer instead of on phone I might repost them to you but otherwise not much point me spamming the same links over and over if people can't be bothered to read

The human race going plant based has led to unprecedented levels of obesity, diabetes and heart disease. Eating just meat with appropriate levels of fat cures all of these diseases. And yes there is both an increasing number of anecdotes as well as research papers that prove this.

7th day Adventists, like I've mentioned about 20 times already

The Global Influence of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church on Diet

The emphasis on health ministry within the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) movement led to the development of sanitariums in mid-nineteenth century America. These facilities, the most notable being in Battle Creek, Michigan, initiated the development of vegetarian foods, such as breakfast cereals...

www.mdpi.com

^ the USDA food pyramid was basically invented by religious fanatics - so everything people think they know about a healthy balanced diet is based on a lie

 

[Johno please?]

I know this isn't Speaker's Corner, but honestly some of these posts are really embarrassing.

Yea they are apart from the people excusing animal abuse, whats your contribution apart from moaning about the words I use?

I've see not one ounce of reason or logic in defending what we do to animals, you know why that is? Because the position is untenable, you cant defend it, well you can try but you just end up sounding like Richie.

The term is butchering, not mutilating. And the animals are already dead by the time they're butchered into tasty cuts of meat.

If you took an animal, cut their tail off, clipped their teeth, and castrated them, what would you call that?

Stop being emotional. I respect people's choices concerning their diet, yes. I've said that numerous times but, as usual, you skip over things/don't bother reading properly.




I did address it - I called it a crackpot statement. To be clear - in a discussion about eating meat, bringing up circumcision is a crackpot statement.

Is this from the list of "rebuttals" from the Vegan Activists Handbook that has been cobbled together to be used when losing arguments?


If you want to talk morals - you seem to think everyone should have morals that align with yours. That morals are a strict list of what is right and wrong and no deviation is allowed.

Newsflash - morals are generally instilled from lived experiences and will vary, sometimes wildly, from one person to another. That doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong, it just means they are different.

If you can't accept that in the confines of this argument of dietary choice, then that's your issue. Bringing up completely obtuse points to try and bolster your own argument just shows your argument is not as strong as you think it is. Circumcision, farming humans and road deaths being a few absurd arguments used by yourself in this discussion.



Reductio ad absurdum... You can't have a proper discussion with anyone that continually does this ergo, it's no longer worthwhile....

Take that as a win if you want but we both know that would be a lie.

You cant answer basic questions because your position is indefensible hence the resort to ad hominem.

No its called an analogy Richie, because you kept mentioning legality, so I brought up something morally wrong which is legal.

I don't want people to live by my morals, I want people to live by their own morals. Most people are against animal abuse, but those same people pay for it, and some people are even willing to argue defending it.

 

[Johno please?]

The human race going plant based has led to unprecedented levels of obesity, diabetes and heart disease. Eating just meat with appropriate levels of fat cures all of these diseases. And yes there is both an increasing number of anecdotes as well as research papers that prove this.

Vegans and people on a plant based diet make up a tiny percentage of the population, so this makes absolutely no sense, like I said earlier, youve played yourself with your own argument.

 

[tonys]

Yea they are apart from the people excusing animal abuse, whats your contribution apart from moaning about the words I use?

I've see not one ounce of reason or logic in defending what we do to animals, you know why that is? Because the position is untenable, you cant defend it, well you can try but you just end up sounding like Richie.



If you took an animal, cut their tail off, clipped their teeth, and castrated them, what would you call that?


You cant answer basic questions because your position is indefensible hence the resort to ad hominem.

No its called an analogy Richie, because you kept mentioning legality, so I brought up something morally wrong which is legal.

I don't want people to live by my morals, I want people to live by their own morals. Most people are against animal abuse, but those same people pay for it, and some people are even willing to argue defending it.

You seem to forget that our morals are only a construct of our society and not a integral part of human nature.

 

[andybird123]

Vegans and people on a plant based diet make up a tiny percentage of the population, so this makes absolutely no sense, like I said earlier, youve played yourself with your own argument.

Everyone eats a plants based diet compare with actual carnivores - what percentage of the UK''s calories comes from meat? It's like 5% of calories from meat
if 90+% of most US/UK people's calories come from plants then what else would you call that as a diet, its not meat based is it

 

[Crizzy]

7th day Adventists, like I've mentioned about 20 times already

The Global Influence of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church on Diet

The emphasis on health ministry within the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) movement led to the development of sanitariums in mid-nineteenth century America. These facilities, the most notable being in Battle Creek, Michigan, initiated the development of vegetarian foods, such as breakfast cereals...

www.mdpi.com

This does nothing to suggest that the findings put forward by the American and British Dietetics Associations, WHO and other associated studies are biased towards religion? What am I missing?

 

[andybird123]

This does nothing to suggest that the findings put forward by the American and British Dietetics Associations, WHO and other associated studies are biased towards religion? What am I missing?

the ADA and BDA literally ARE 7th day adventist organisations, totally 100% created and funded by them

fake meat products and the proliferation of soy are also from 7thDA

you'll frequently see them mention Loma Linda University - I bet you can't work out who owns that too

 

[Diddums]

whats your contribution apart from moaning about the words I use?

Well the argument you're trying to make is completely irrelevant at this point. You're not capable of having a discussion without turning on the taps and having a cute little meltdown in every single one of your posts, so I'm just sat here laughing at the counterproductivity you're achieving with your posts.

You don't seem to be able to grasp this though, your brain is literally stuck at "ehrmehgehrd poor animals" and anyone not buying in to your whingefest is pure evil according to you. Even the slightest attempt to reason with you is met with your usual emo nonsense, sadly until you change your ways you're not convincing anyone.

So to recap, you're not capable of reason, you're not capable of listening, you're not capable of getting your message across without doing more harm to your cause, you are the only person in these threads so passionate about the subject (moon man has some interesting points, but nowhere near as dramatic as you) and you choose to either attack or ignore anyone who doesn't hold your hand and cry for the poor animals.

So there are a few outcomes here:

• Either you and Moon are the only two vegans in this thread.
• There are more vegans in this thread but they also think you're nuts and are keeping schtum.
• Us carnivores are so amused by your little mental breakdowns in every post that you're literally not achieving anything

TL;DR: the vegans aren't supporting you and the carnivores are laughing at you.

That's what your're achieving.

I'd be questioning my mental health right now if I were you.

 

[Crizzy]

the ADA and BDA literally ARE 7th day adventist organisations, totally 100% created and funded by them

fake meat products and the proliferation of soy are also from 7thDA

you'll frequently see them mention Loma Linda University - I bet you can't work out who owns that too

The American Dietetic Association is an independent organisation made up of registered dietitians and nutrition professionals? Same goes for the British Dietetics Association? It would have to take the individual members to have a combined bias for veganism to actively discredit their own profession?

I'm sorry but this argument comes across as something that resembles a conspiracy theory.

It's fine if you believe it, but you have far from convinced me here.

 

[Crizzy]

TL;DR: the vegans aren't supporting you and the carnivores are laughing at you.

Johno is obviously very passionate about how he feels, I completely support him and without people like him I wouldn't have become interested in veganism enough to go away and do my own research.

You've done your research and come to a different conclusion, that's fine but it's right that when someone feels there is an injustice in the world they stand up and speak against it. Yes we might not always get things right as it's a very complicated and emotive subject, but the key is to learn and move on.

 

[andybird123]

The American Dietetic Association is an independent organisation made up of registered dietitians and nutrition professionals? Same goes for the British Dietetics Association? It would have to take the individual members to have a combined bias for veganism to actively discredit their own profession?

I'm sorry but this argument comes across as something that resembles a conspiracy theory.

It's fine if you believe it, but you have far from convinced me here.

Distasteful vegan TV ad

I don't eat crabs/lobsters because I don't like the idea of boiling something alive. It is considered more humane to kill them before boiling them, usually with a knife or screw driver to the brain (bhind the eyes in the middle).

forums.overclockers.co.uk

Here is the said research they rely on as posted by Johno - actually click the links and actually read the research or do a search within for the word Adventist

Also; The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics was founded in 1917 in Cleveland, Ohio, by a group of women led by Lenna F. Cooper

 

[tonys]

Johno is obviously very passionate about how he feels, I completely support him and without people like him I wouldn't have become interested in veganism enough to go away and do my own research.

You've done your research and come to a different conclusion, that's fine but it's right that when someone feels there is an injustice in the world they stand up and speak against it. Yes we might not always get things right as it's a very complicated and emotive subject, but the key is to learn and move on.

There is trying to educate and trying to ram it down your throat( no pun intended)

 

[Diddums]

Johno is obviously very passionate about how he feels, I completely support him and without people like him I wouldn't have become interested in veganism enough to go away and do my own research.

You've done your research and come to a different conclusion, that's fine but it's right that when someone feels there is an injustice in the world they stand up and speak against it. Yes we might not always get things right as it's a very complicated and emotive subject, but the key is to learn and move on.

The key is also to try and convince people in a reasonable way and not alienate them.

I fully support anyone supporting or believing in their cause, it's why I'm fairly quiet on the whole climate thing, as apart from the nutters on highways, it's now evolved in to a fairly reasonable discussion and is actually making progress. But attacking anyone right off the bat is just going to get their backs up, as witnessed here.

I've tried telling Johno quite reasonably that he would benefit from turning it down a bit and approaching this topic which he is so clearly passionate about in a more approachable manner but he's not capable of this. He only has two modes - silent, or "YOU'RE ALL MASS MURDERING ANIMALS IN HORRIBLE AND PAINFUL WAYS YOU MONSTERS".

That's why he's just a joke at this point. Have an adult discussion, get an adult response.

 

[Nasher]

Almost every vegan I've met has some kind of illness or vitamin deficiency. Maybe it's a coincidence..

 

[jigger]

Yea they are apart from the people excusing animal abuse, whats your contribution apart from moaning about the words I use?

I've see not one ounce of reason or logic in defending what we do to animals, you know why that is? Because the position is untenable, you cant defend it, well you can try but you just end up sounding like Richie.



If you took an animal, cut their tail off, clipped their teeth, and castrated them, what would you call that?


You cant answer basic questions because your position is indefensible hence the resort to ad hominem.

No its called an analogy Richie, because you kept mentioning legality, so I brought up something morally wrong which is legal.

I don't want people to live by my morals, I want people to live by their own morals. Most people are against animal abuse, but those same people pay for it, and some people are even willing to argue defending it.

Chineses and American coal and gas power stations. Aviation and concrete production. lack of nuclear power generation and ICE transport. That list is 90% of the worlds biggest killers and threats to life.

 

[Nasher]

How many vegans keep cats? That accounts for quite a lot of dead wildlife.

 

[Crizzy]

Chineses and American coal and gas power stations. Aviation and concrete production. lack of nuclear power generation and ICE transport. That list is 90% of the worlds biggest killers and threats to life.

But I can't do anything about those, but I can easily not eat meat which combined with others doing the same hopefully does it's bit to reduce the harm we cause to animals.

 

[Crizzy]

Distasteful vegan TV ad

I don't eat crabs/lobsters because I don't like the idea of boiling something alive. It is considered more humane to kill them before boiling them, usually with a knife or screw driver to the brain (bhind the eyes in the middle).

forums.overclockers.co.uk

Here is the said research they rely on as posted by Johno - actually click the links and actually read the research or do a search within for the word Adventist

Also; The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics was founded in 1917 in Cleveland, Ohio, by a group of women led by Lenna F. Cooper

Thanks, I will look at this, although I can't quite see the link from here.

It's also interesting to learn that the founder had links to the Adventist, but to claim that has an impact on the way the organisation functions 100 years later I think is a bit of a stretch.