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DLSS Momentum Continues: 50 Released and Upcoming DLSS 3 Games, Over 250 DLSS Games and Creative Apps Available Now

Not sure what anyone was expecting there, upscaling at 1080p means a woefully low input resolution with not enough pixels for the AI upscaler to work with so you end up with softer images and obvious ghosting. This hasn't changed since upscaling started out and won't change in the future because of the very fact that 1080p upscaling = Too low an internal resolution to generate high quality upscaled outputs.

1440P DLSS Quality or 4K DLSS Performance is where upscaling makes the most obvious sense.

It's 2024, it's about time 1080p was laid to rest.

It didn't actually do too bad in the video tbh, obviously not the best case for it but interesting none the less. Also, as mentioned in my above post, if HUB did what most pc gamers would do i.e. swap out dlss for newer versions as well as ensuring all post processing effects were turned off, the issues they had with dlss here would have most likely been solved.....
 

DSOG: DLSS introduced Super Resolution. DLSS 3 added Frame Generation and DLSS 3.5 brought Ray Reconstruction. What’s the next step for DLSS?



LS:
We’ve continued to improve and update DLSS since its introduction in 2019 so it’s safe to say we have more to come. We’re always working to give gamers better performance and the best graphical experience possible, and that’s what we’ll continue to do in future iterations of DLSS.


DSOG: Are there any plans to enable DLSS 3 FG for the older RTX GPUs? We know that due to the lack of the Optical Flow Accelerator, DLSS 3 FG won’t be as good on these GPUs as on the RTX40 series. Still, a lot of RTX owners could be interested in enabling it, especially since FSR 3.0 now works on all GPUs.


LS:
We built DLSS Frame Generation to deliver the best possible experience including FPS, frame pacing, image quality, and latency across V-SYNC/VRR display modes. Achieving this uncompromised experience requires use of dedicated hardware available on RTX 40 Series GPUs.


DSOG: AMD recently launched AFMF, via which you can enable frame generation in all DX11/DX12 games. Is NVIDIA looking into adding a similar driver-based frame generation feature for its GPUs?


LS:
Without proper frame pacing and latency reduction technology natively integrated into the game, driver-based frame generation will likely struggle to generate good image quality and effectively manage latency, resulting in visual artifacts and laggy experience.

Not great answers there and dsogaming should have pushed the fact that fsr 3 fg mod is working pretty well (dependent on the game)
 

Unfortunately, despite the FSR implementation being updated from FSR 2.2 to FSR 3 with the latest patch, the quality of FSR upscaling remains the same as it was on launch day. In Starfield, the main issue FSR upscaling has is a constant shimmering on many objects, such as thin steel objects, transparent materials, tree leaves and vegetation in general, laser sights and scopes, power lines and neon signs. These shimmering artifacts are visible across all resolutions and quality modes when standing still, but are even more noticeable in motion. The FSR 3 upscaling implementation also has visible pixelation on particles and disocclusion artifacts on NPCs, which is especially visible at lower resolutions such as 1080p. It is important to note all of these issues because AMD's Frame Generation solution can only be used in conjunction with FSR upscaling, which means that you can't enable the platform-agnostic technology together with native TAA or DLSS/XeSS, and unfortunately, running FSR 3 at native resolution doesn't save you from the visual issues that we found during our testing. These results indicate that the built-in FSR antialiasing itself is causing these artifacts.

With that being said, when you apply Frame Generation—a technology that uses information from previous frames to smoothly generate additional GPU frames without CPU involvement—to the image that already has lots of artifacts and image breakups in motion, you'll receive an even more unstable image as a final result. This is especially noticeable at 1080p, a resolution where most players would want to enable AMD's Frame Generation to boost their performance and smoothness. At this low resolution, FSR upscaling in "Quality" mode and Frame Generation enabled, the image becomes noticeably softer with disruptive and immersion breaking shimmering and ghosting. It is very unfortunate that using AMD's Frame Generation is locked to FSR upscaling, noticeably decreasing the overall image quality. If TAA or DLSS/XeSS could be used as the base image, enabling AMD's Frame Generation solution would produce a much more appealing image quality. On a positive note, at least the FSR 3 Frame Generation implementation does not introduce any jittering issues with the in-game UI.

Intel's XeSS comes with three upscaling kernels that are optimized for various architectures. The first is the kernel that gets used on Intel Arc GPUs with their XMX engines. This is the most advanced model too, that not only performs better in terms of FPS, but also offers the best upscaling quality, the "Advanced XeSS upscaling model." Intel also provides an optimized kernel for Intel Integrated Graphics, and another compatibility kernel, used for all other architectures that support Shader Model 6.4, e.g. all recent AMD and NVIDIA cards. These use the "Standard XeSS upscaling model," which is somewhat simpler, with lower performance and quality compared to the Advanced XeSS upscaling model (we use the compatibility model with our test system's RTX 4080). If DP4a instructions aren't available, as on the Radeon RX 5700 XT, slower INT24 instructions are used instead.

Speaking of XeSS in Starfield, the XeSS 1.2 implementation in its DP4a mode looks quite impressive in this game compared to FSR 3 upscaling and the in-game TAA solution. The quality of built-in XeSS antialiasing is superior to both FSR 3 and TAA, and very close to DLSS in maintaining a stable image without shimmering or flickering of thin objects at 1440p and 4K resolutions. However, things are a bit different at the lower 1080p resolution: while XeSS is still able to produce an image without excessive shimmering at "Quality" mode, image artifacts become a problem, especially on weapon sights. There are very noticeable ghosting issues to the point that we could clearly see four laser sights on the weapon when moving the mouse, this is very distracting for some people. Pixelation of particle effects is also an issue for XeSS in "Quality" mode at 1080p resolution, but to a lesser degree in comparison to FSR 3 upscaling.

If you want the most stable and clean image in Starfield—DLSS Super Resolution can deliver it. Because of yet another poor implementation - this time the in-game native TAA solution, which has a very blurry overall image across all resolutions and very poor rendering of small object detail and shimmering artifacts, even at 4K, enabling DLSS Super Resolution produces distinctly cleaner overall image quality, free from artifacts across all resolutions and quality modes. With DLSS enabled you can expect an improved level of detail of particle effects, tree leaves and vegetation rendering, power lines and neon signs are stable in motion, providing a more comprehensive and immersive presentation, particularly during motion, compared to native TAA or FSR 3/XeSS solutions. The latest patch also fixes some DLSS related bugs and glitches that the game had since November, such as small black dots on the ground when DLSS was running at resolutions below 1080p internally, and an issue that could make clouds appear to vibrate when using DLSS in "Performance" mode.

The DLSS Frame Generation implementation in Starfield is excellent, producing a stable and crisp image without any jittering issues on the in-game on-screen UI, the area where Frame Generation often has issues. Small particle effects, such as rain or laser sights, are rendered correctly, even during fast movement. As a perk, the DLSS Frame Generation implementation in this game has the ability to use Frame Generation together with DLAA, for a better than native result while still benefiting from improved framerates. During our DLSS Frame Generation testing, overall gameplay felt very smooth and responsive, and we didn't spot any issues with input latency.

Regarding performance, the DLSS, XeSS 1.2 and FSR 3 implementations in Starfield offer significantly lower performance gains compared to the norm set by other games that use the same technologies. Usually, going from native rendering to "Quality" mode will grant a solid 40% performance boost, or even higher in some games, but in Starfield, the performance increase is only around 25% in "Quality" upscaling modes compared to native rendering. Despite Starfield receiving several improvements to CPU performance from post-launch patches, it is still a very CPU intensive game, especially inside big cities, and high-powered GPUs such as the GeForce RTX 4080 will end up CPU bottlenecked in some sequences of the game at 1440p resolution and below. In such scenarios, very welcome help comes from the DLSS and FSR 3 Frame Generation technologies, which have the ability to bypass CPU limitations and increase the framerate. With DLSS or FSR in "Quality" mode and Frame Generation enabled, you can expect doubled performance across all resolutions, with AMD's Frame Generation producing slightly more frames in GPU limited scenarios than NVIDIA's Frame Generation solution, albeit with worse image quality.
 
That’s great and all but… i’d love some new exciting news regarding DLSS or any other new AI tech being implemented. Maybe something like those AI filters that can simulate another visual artstyle in realtime or something. That would be nice

I do wonder what is next for DLSS outside of just improving the current IQ etc. I'm wondering if we might see a combination of DLDSR and DLSS in one setting perhaps as very few people are aware of the benefits of combining DLSS with DLDSR and it is a bit more of a faff to setup (less so thanks to the new nvidia app)
 
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Remember folks, install DLSS tweaks and replace with preset C!
 
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Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake places high demands on the graphics card. To alleviate the challenge, upsampling belongs to the mandatory program, regardless of the resolution and the graphics card, especially since DLSS and TSR are superior to the native resolution

Computerbase usually rate dlss etc. over native but never seen them use the word "superior" :cry:
 
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Not that I pay much attention to what driver panels recommend for graphical settings but I've noticed in the new nvidia app, for the majority of the games, nvidia are now recommending DLDSR res. with DLSS balanced/performance over native/dlss quality at stock res. Was this the case with geforce now experience game optimisation recommendations too? Can't say I'm surprised though as based on all the games I've tested, DLSS perf and 1.78x dldsr does look better than dlss quality and native.
 
With the rumored starting price of £1999 I think a fair few less people will be buying come October/November especially as we've just entered a recession, Again, And everything else has gone up in price but wages/salaries haven't.

That won't stop pc gamers with an itch ;)

It's the 5080 I'll be interested in but a 5090 could be tempting if < £1600, no way we'll ever see a repeat of the 3080 to 3090 perf and price difference again.
 
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UE5 seems to get more optimised as time goes on and devs mature with the engine, not the other way round. Have yet to see any game/demo that runs worse once optimised properly.

This all assumes that devs don't go stagnant and rely on frame gen etc to get a higher fps count vs actually optimising. But this isn't likely going to be the case going forwards thanks to how AI is taking off in a big way to do a lot of optimisation too and Nvidia/Epic working together now to optimise the engine and add new features without the devs having to do as much work as before.

Personally I think we've nearly reached the feature peak and what happens after that point is just efficiency advances in tech like frame gen and the obvious iterative improvements to super resolution. We'll just see more GPU speed to render the same games at even higher etc as the display tech has now sufficiently advanced for 240Hz OLED or above over the next 0-24 months, for those who want to get such high framerates in games of course. The rest of us will be fine playing at just Gsync 100fps+ lol.

IMO the new 50 series and beyond will be for those who mostly want to play games at the framerates that next gen displays will be running at, 240Hz+ at 4K and beyond.

Generative AI is the current big upcoming thing for gaming, and this doesn't require a top end GPU to execute.



Don't get ahead of yourself, you already bet that a 4090 will be £1k, the current ETA for that is about a year if I recall based on your last post about this bet. I set a google calendar reminder to jump back into that thread to point fingers. I will wait for that.

I must say this is very true though, recent UE 5 games have been running very well and also highly optimised on the vram front too, using very little compared to some of the non UE 5 games from last year.

I also think we'll see start to see RT/PT getting better optimised too especially as devs start to focus less on raster methods.
 
It will be interesting to see what nvidia will lock/implement with the 50xx though as the 4090 is an incredible gpu so they'll need something to entice those with 4090s to upgrade.
 
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Back on topic, it's a shame users have to manually tweak settings to get the best out of features like DLSS, especially when the better preset is already there. Is the preset chosen on a per game basis by default?

It's up to the game devs which preset to use. But the recommended one by nvidia is preset d as it offers better temporal stability sometimes where as c will have less temporal stability but better motion so devs probably don't do any testing themselves even though it clearly states in nvidias guidance to do their own testing to find which works best :o

I am very interested in seeing what we will get. And what the prices will be.

We have never been in this situation so hard to predict. That said, unless Lisa has a chat with her uncle again to fix prices, I can't see nvidia abandoning pc gamers completely by pricing cards stupid like some suggest.

They should up the price on the 5090. The rest of the line should be similar pricing. At the end of the day dodgy silicon which is what cut down cards like the 5070 would be have to still be sold. If you ask £999 for it not many will buy.

If pricing was going to be much more stupid than it already is why would they have released a 4080S and lower the price?

I think we'll see better prices with 50xx but it is going to still be crap in the grand scheme of things:

5090 - probably like £1600+
5080 - probably £1000 (offering 4090 matching or beating perf)
5070 - probably £700

Of course 5080 will look like a bargain given the 4090 cost but not really a bargain..... And then of course amd will come in £50-100 cheaper :cry:
 
Will AMD even have a card in that performance bracket this time?

They really need to drop the we are premium stuff and price the card properly. That said will there be enough silicon to supply the demand of a properly priced card?

I think there was rumours they're pulling out from the high/flagship end, which makes sense tbf as imo nvidia just can't be touched here when amd are charging similar price for a lesser package overall so they either need to price a comfortable 20-25% lower or just try and win the market share back at the most popular gpus tier.
 
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Streamline used by Windows to support multiple upscalers. This was originally thought but as Alex says "AMD didn't want to support it" - But now that MS are taking over and baking in the framework at an OS level, you either lose out or be part of it, so this is good and potentially makes upscaling support for all games as long as the game can expose itself to the framework, I guess older games simply need a mod to show themselves to the framework rather than a modder having to inject upscaling.

All good looking ahead.

I'm sure amd are delighted that Microsoft are basically taking up nvidias idea and now not having any choice or excuses but to get onboard :p
 
Following on from that, looks like FSR powered by AI hardware will only be possible on RDNA3 and above, and going by chatter on [H] and elsewhere, likely won't see RDNA4 until AI-FSR is ready, but if PS5 Pro uses it too, then that will likely take priority for obvious reasons. So once again lagging behind in the PC space for AMD:


Pretty sure Sony have said they're working on their own upscaling solution? It's a shame amd are so far behind here and they have the over the fence approach, powering consoles and obviously having that relationship with both microsoft and sony, they really could have excelled with fsr.
 
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Good that they're actually *trying* now but I personally think they'll keep it locked behind rDNA4 onwards.

Wonder if amd will get the same **** then for locking their tech to certain gpus as nvidia do? ;) :p

If it works well, it's a good move as heck look at me and others with nvidia gpus, we can't and don't want to move to amd because of how good nvidias feature set is. AMD need to start doing the same. The key thing they will need to do is make sure they take ownership in the development and improvement of this or at least provide a t shirt size like nvidia do because if they just throw it over the fence again and expect devs to do the tuning themselves, well then it'll be repeat of FSR 1-3 again with inconsistent results and more often than not just being poor.
 
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