Doctor Who

Soldato
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I do still love RTDs first TV series. It was called Dark Season and was on CBBC in the 90s and featured a then unknown Kate Winslet. You could tell from that he was a massive Doctor Who fan as some character traits were very influenced by the Doctor and companions, in the way the show unfolded and the solving of the mystery.

I've rewatched a few times in recent years as it's still really good.
 
Associate
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I would suggest that Jinx is clearly living in a very tiny Echo Chamber, and it isn't good for anyone to be so closed off that their version of reality has become so vastly different from the one the rest of us live in. Maybe they should also step outside and touch grass as well.

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The really, truly sad thing is that "message" that Russell T Davies (whose early TV work I really love) is trying to push is actually not a bad thing (be nice to everyone, irrespective of their specific differences) yet that message is being delivered the most aggressive way possible - "like us and everything we do, even if its crap, or you're a bad person and we'll tell everyone that you're the problem, bigot" - which is absolutely never, ever the way to get genuine change in a large group of people.

It's really sad as I loved RTD's early career. I watched an interview with him about his TV career so far just after it was announced that he was coming back to this latest run on Doctor Who and he made some amazing TV, from the ground breaking Queer as Folk which opened the door (and the wider populations eyes) to modern day "gay life" being normalised on TV, through to his show Its a Sin (which is my favourite) about the disaster of AIDS in the 80's as it ran rampant through the gay scene, killing and changing lives whilst the victims felt the need to hide due to shame and the slow change in society through the 90's as we (mostly) realised how wrong it was. As the stories were based on people he knew, that gave it a reality that was gut-wrenching and it was a fantastic way to gently change peoples opinions, through empathy and patience and the belief that "people will get it eventually" whereas all his newer stuff is based around to be "I don't have time left for the slow & gentle approach any more - like this or or else".

So I couldn't understand how the man who wrote some amazing TV shows, and who pushed "the message" in such a good way earlier on, had become so aggressive about changing the way people thought, until the part of the interview where he was talking about the after effects of "Its a Sin" on society and why it'd left him so angry, and (to paraphrase this) he said "I realised after I saw the effect of Its a Sin had on people that I couldn't continue to be passive any more, I needed to be an activist, I need to force change..........." (again, thats paraphrased) and that was the point when I realised what had changed. He'd stopped being the guy who wrote such amazing earlier work that changed attitudes through things like empathy and just showing people being realistic rather than being caricatures and, as he'd become angry at what he saw as the slow pace of the change, he decided to force it upon people and if you didn't like "Tough, get out the way!"

That I think perfectly explains the situation he's now in, surrounded by his own echo chamber and unable (or unwilling) to understand that how he effected his biggest changes WAS by putting his message across slowly, and that there is no large audience there for the aggressive way he (and the cast/crew) have currently decided to push his message instead. The biggest shame is that, if the quality of the writing and acting was at least still really high, then you really could beat people around the head with the message (see Green Book or Hidden Figures etc) but in his rush the quality has been lost, making his message appear bullying rather than coaxing, and I think thats why its now falling flat.

I'd love for him to take a step back and re-evaluate what worked for him and why it did, as I genuinely thing he's probably still got that ability locked up somewhere, but he's got to lose that aggressive "change or else" attitude which is failing him so hard now when we all know that his earlier stuff worked so well.


They definitely should be touching grass.

You're right, things were progressing decades ago in much more concilliatory manner and i'd say a much mreo effective one. But now a movement for social change has become an extreme ideology in which you're either 100% in the cult and bowing down to the "the message" or you're a bigot, 'ist, 'phobe, whatever and people have stopped listening and instead of being cowed by lunatics have given thwm, their products and their ideology the middle finger.

I don't think the cult is going to dial it back because I think a lot of people driving it aren't the slightest bit interested in actually promoting what they claim to be promoting I think they're interested in promoting themselves, being spiteful and vindictive, ruining everything and tearing down straight white males.

There's no peace, love and understanding in wokism - it's all hate, spite, and vitriol.

And people can see it for exactly what it is, and they are rejecting it en masse.
 
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Caporegime
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He spent too much time at the BBC.

You can do adult tran stuff without drag queens, over the top pantomime and all the rest of the nonsense.

If every LGBT character wasn't a gay pride festival then they might actually have likeable characters in there somewhere.

people always claim we are pushing the limits bla bla, there were popular gay characters back in the 90s, popular gay singers, gay people won big brother, didn't that trans woman nadine? win it? even now they are less than 10% of the population? who do they think were voting for them to win? obviously those bigoted straight people

Society accepted them for the most part.... it's not being trans that's the issue.... it's the over the top caricature characters that are some weird twisted and delusional pantomime.

Save it for the gay club on a Friday or Saturday night


No one wants to be bombarded by ideology, politics and reprogramming...

it doesn't matter what subject it is no one likes being preached to by "better than thou" types.

it does the exact opposite, like with greta thunberg, the just stop oil protestors, and all the rest of it.
 
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Soldato
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The dictionary definition of woke bears no resemblance to the way it is getting abused by people who don't like the idea of it.
having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities:

So woke is actually just being an empathic human being who shows understanding towards those who may differ from themselves in some way. In the way its defined its good being 'woke'.
 
Soldato
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Soldato
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So woke is actually just being an empathic human being who shows understanding towards those who may differ from themselves in some way. In the way its defined its good being 'woke'.

Absolutely true for me, but what turns "woke" into an insult rather than a good thing isn't due to the dictionary definition, its becomes an insult due to the aggressive attitude of a small amount of loud lunatics on the fringe who are militant about enforcing their singular belief on everyone else. It's that terrible attitude which makes what should be a good thing i.e "being woke = trying to treat everyone better irrespective of differences etc" into something used as an insult against the militant types, rather than as an insult against the ideology itself i.e "woke = You must believe what I believe, as passionately as I do, or else you're a bigot, an enemy, and we must attack you!" etc.

Taking that dictionary definition I think you could say that lots of normal everyday people would rightly be considered woke, but as always it tends to be the fringes who are loudly demanding "give me everything I want or else" that really hurts the core idea of being woke, because everyday people don't want to be associated with that lunatic fringe, as we see time and time again.

Thats my thoughts on it anyway.
 
Soldato
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By pure definition, being woke is a good thing. Equality and treating everyone the same is good. It's just how its been rammed down our throats in it's extreme form and injected into everything we love has kind of changed it's original meaning. Nobody likes being slapped round the face with preachy holier than thou sanctimonious bs (unless you're an ultra leftie). It's now viewed as a bad word due to this.

The funny thing is, they are shouting inclusivity at the tops of their voices, but it's anything but that if you're a straight white male :p

But what really gets my goat, is being called a homophobe / transphobe etc just because I don't want this virtue signalling claptrap in my favourite IP's.

The big companies like Disney are buying up these big IP's to use as a platform to virtue signal.
 
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Soldato
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There has always been a subset of society that complains when they see people different to them in things. Some people just want to claim they're absolutely fine with "all of that" as long as it isn't actually seen by them.
You just don't get it do you? It's not a problem seeing people who look different. It's when ideology is stuffed into everything. Why should we be slapped in the face with non binary pronouns in a galaxy far far away for example??
 
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Caporegime
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You just don't get it do you? It's not a problem seeing people who look different. It's when ideology is stuffed into everything. Why should we be slapped in the face with non binary pronouns in a galaxy far far away for example??
Exactly, you're "fine" with them existing, you just don't want them on your screen in case they corrupt you or something.

Weirdly I've never heard anyone complaining that aliens have other human traits until they dare to be not heterosexual have different pronouns....I wonder what could be different here.
 
Soldato
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Exactly, you're "fine" with them existing, you just don't want them on your screen in case they corrupt you or something.

Weirdly I've never heard anyone complaining that aliens have other human traits until they dare to be not heterosexual have different pronouns....I wonder what could be different here.
Seriously? Is that what you truly think? You claim to know how I feel? I can promise you I treat everyone the same. There isn't a racist bone in my body. I've loved characters in films of all races and genders.

I just don't like being slapped in the face with ideology while I'm trying to enjoy some escapism.

Your opinion says more about yourself than anything.
 
Don
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Exactly, you're "fine" with them existing, you just don't want them on your screen in case they corrupt you or something.
I'm "fine" with "them" existing, I'm "fine" with "them" on screen - what I'm not fine with is every other person being shoehorned in having some sort of "representation" criteria, to the point that as a white male I now feel under-represented.

Coupled with the ironic double standards that you can't have Davros in a wheelchair because that means that people in wheelchairs are evil, so we must double down on it by having people in wheelchair only be "superheroes" (e.g. the female unit chief in the last season/specials whatever), rather than just portraying a "normal" average, everyday person in a wheelchair.

We are verging into generic "wokeness" discussion however, so either directly link it to the show, or it will be classed as off topic and removed.
 
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