Caporegime
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You don't think Fergie would have got top 4? That is a brave statement.
Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**
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They have no choice. 7 of those players wouldn't get a start at Everton. If Lukaku was fit I'm not sure I'd want RVP either in front of him.
I'd take Rooney, Mata and the keeper at Everton the rest you could keep. That's the dross that's been left. It needs the biggest clear out since Fergie took the job. Moyes would have probably done better in Midfield asking Phil Neville to get his boots back out.
Soldato
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It would be an absolute farce if he was let go.
Tell me what any manager is going to do with that squad?
It does however highlight how good Fergie actually was getting that squad to perform, as they do need wholesale changes.
Tell me what any manager is going to do with that squad?
It does however highlight how good Fergie actually was getting that squad to perform, as they do need wholesale changes.
No I don't, purely because although the drop in ability of the players you have hasn't been as huge as is made out, the other teams Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Arsenal have performed much better than last year.
I don't know who from the top 4 that squad would have been good enough to displace considering the form of Sturridge and Suarez. Maybe Arsenal depending on how the rest of their season goes with Ozil on extended winter break.
Soldato
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Moyes has got to go after that dire performance. Worst I think I've ever seen Utd. Bring back Mike Phelan as interim manager (along with some of the older backroom staff ?Rene) until the end of the season. We've got sweet **** all to play for anyway now, its just damage limitation. Wait until after the World Cup and see which managers are available. My choice would be Klopp along with Reus from BD and a whole new defence!
Or maybe its just the players attitudes that have changed. Of course they react different to someome with less success as them /their previous boss (and the guy who hired them in the first place).
Remember even SAF has been saying over the last few years that its very hard to treat players the same as he did Beckham /Neville/ Scholes in the early years. Its probably doubly as difficult for Moyes as a lot of the players know they are leaving and they cant really be penalised effectively (will £100k mean anything if you have £5m/£10m/£20m in the bank?)
Taking away a player's week's salery used to be felt and was a good tool to get people in line, its far less effective nowadays. If they are leaving , will they care if they dont play for the rest of the season? I doubt it
What can a new manager threaten players with (admittedly this doesnt apply to much younger players, but a lot of the agro is seemingly coming from the older players)
Caporegime
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I'm fairly certain that Fergie would have had us keeping pace with both Arsenal and Liverpool. While both have improved it's only looking so drastic because Moyes has dropped us so significantly.
We finished 16 points ahead of Arsenal and 28 points ahead of Liverpool last season...
We finished 16 points ahead of Arsenal and 28 points ahead of Liverpool last season...
I think you're forgetting teams beat themselves before playing United and showed too much respect when Ferguson was there.
Any team that went at them usually had a good chance of winning in recent years, as they have done under Moyes, if Ferguson was there they'd all sit back and hope not to be beat still.
Yes, no manager could come in that had the aura of Fergie at United. If a player spoke up they got moved. None of them where bigger than Fergie. If he sensed a player might be disruptive he would ship them out.
Fergie was such an institution at United no one dared go against him and hope to survive.
Both of those have kicked on significantly in terms of games they are winning they would have drawn or lost last year. The other two just needed better managers. No doubt Fergie would have done better, but I'm not convinced it would have been enough with the same team had he not got anyone in either.
Of course we don't know if he would have got in.
They need a back 4 and 2 defensive/central midfielders and possibly a striker, however you cant change that much in a season. Shopping list for the start of the new season would be a pair of FB's and a CD (ironically just like Liverpool need) and a CM. I would have kept Vidic for one more season, was their best defender last night
-----------De Gea-----------
new---vidic/Jones---new---new
---------new---elbows--------
--Rooney--Mata---Kagawa
---------Van Persie--------
2015 summer, new CM, New Striker and a Rooney replacement. Thats just the 1st team, nevermind the squad as a whole.
-----------De Gea-----------
new---vidic/Jones---new---new
---------new---elbows--------
--Rooney--Mata---Kagawa
---------Van Persie--------
2015 summer, new CM, New Striker and a Rooney replacement. Thats just the 1st team, nevermind the squad as a whole.
Caporegime
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You can't say that with certainty.
Edited your earlier post slightly, to make it fit your last post.
Hence the word fairly. When was the last time Fergie didn't get top 4? Hell, when was the last time Fergie didn't get top 3? I know we all like to think the squad is suddenly **** because quite frankly, Moyes is making it look like that.
Caporegime
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What, what? How often do you think Fergie was fining players a weeks salary? Likewise, back when Beckham was only getting himself 50k a week and got fined once in a year, he was still making millions - 50k. When he was making 200k a week he was making millions - 200k if fined. Your premise seems to rely on the idea that the ONLY way to motivate players is to fine them, which is beyond daft to begin with.
It also completely ignores that EVERY player to the last played better last year than this year, every single one.....
The players attitudes apparently all changed since last year, collectively, Giggs with his 764 titles and RVP with his first and only league title and everyone in between, they all collectively decided in the space of 2 months of summer that winning isn't important any more and the manager wouldn't have a part in this?
Really? That sounds remotely sensible to you? You don't think the collective change in attitude is because a group of people who are motivated by the man hired to motivate them(as a large part of his job). You think they individually all decided losing is great, and the simpler and more sensible reason that the man put in charge has lost them all belief through his dire management being responsible for their attitude is definitely not the reason behind their change in attitude? Wow, that is a very curious logic there.
Caporegime
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Despite Donald rumsfelt it is known that Moyes is and always was the wrong man for the job.
Caporegime
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But fairly certain still means you think there's a good degree of certainty there, when there just isn't. You say Manyoo were x points ahead of Liverpool last year, for example, but that was when Liverpool had a bad year, whilst RVP had an amazing year. The reversal of fortunes could be attributed to Liverpool being better/SaSaS being even better this year/etc, whilst RVP isn't having another amazing year. There are all sorts of variables which you can also mention... but instead you're basically just saying it's the Fergie factor and ignoring the myriad of other variables - it's bizarre.
To paraphrase a great of our time - there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns... all of which have an impact on the relative performances from last year to this one... but you're just focussing on a single one variable. It's plain stupid. All those factors means you can't make a 'fairly certain' guess at how Fergie would have done
I absolutely can, I'll ask again. When was the last time Fergie didn't get top 4? There is nothing to suggest that Fergie would suddenly magically be dropping 4 places. Especially as he would have used the summer transfer window instead of ******* it up quite as badly as Moyes did.
99% of the Man U fans here said he was the right man for the job
still is, give him time. He needs to build the team in his image.
Caporegime
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I don't remember that. In fact I recall most fans saying he wasn't who they wanted but to give him a chance.
Caporegime
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RvP didn't really have a spectacular year all last year, what about the huge patch in the middle when he was on a terrible run of form? And again there's nothing to suggest that he couldn't be doing better this year under a competent manager. I doubt Fergie would have wasted the money we did on Fellaini and would probably have strengthened elsewhere.
You say I'm assuming everything will remain static. The thing is you're assuming everything will change based on nothing more than guesswork.
You say I'm assuming everything will remain static. The thing is you're assuming everything will change based on nothing more than guesswork.
I wouldnt even bother trying to persuade some the fans tbh, completely useless.
Lol, you have no idea what your talking about..such short memories..
Soldato
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Peopel arguing we'd not be in top 4 this term if Fergie was here. A Few points.
We'd have a capable assistant's still there in Phelan and Meulsteen, not some has been half cut Phil Neville who has no right tying any other players boots yet alone telling them how to play.
We'd have added more players during the summer, with less time spent tearing up what was in place.
We'd have Sir Alex's influence to the squad.
And tactics in place that don't completely avoid the talents of the players who get us goals.
We wouldn't have crippled RVP for the first half of the season with over training.
We wouldn't have wasted £25million on sideshow bob, an obvious last ditch signing by a manager with no clue beyond his own doorstep.
We'd have a capable assistant's still there in Phelan and Meulsteen, not some has been half cut Phil Neville who has no right tying any other players boots yet alone telling them how to play.
We'd have added more players during the summer, with less time spent tearing up what was in place.
We'd have Sir Alex's influence to the squad.
And tactics in place that don't completely avoid the talents of the players who get us goals.
We wouldn't have crippled RVP for the first half of the season with over training.
We wouldn't have wasted £25million on sideshow bob, an obvious last ditch signing by a manager with no clue beyond his own doorstep.
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