Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**
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Caporegime
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The thing that worries me is that the players doesn't seem to have heart. It's like they either don't believe in him or don't want to play for him. Which is weird since I don't think you can say that about his side at Everton.
Caporegime
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There aren't many english players at the top of the game, nor managers, because british/english people have a attitude problem. When the rest of the world changes, we don't, because we invented the sport so we know best. It's ignorance and english football is falling behind at a pace that is gathering momentum. It was just Spain, then it was Germany, now it's Belgium and half the countries in between. They've all modernised both training of players and coaches/managers. England refuses point blank to do so and as such we'll suffer a lack of managers except those who get trained, unsurprisingly, by foreign managers/coaches.
No surprise with Rodgers as he has had a huge influence from coaching under other foreign managers and frankly from taking over a team that was already managed by someone who was teaching passing attacking football. It's very hard to take over a Stoke or Sheffield Utd with the players they would have had and ask them to play passing football. In general you're kind of stuck playing whatever works best for the team, it's lucky he could take over teams capable of playing the "right" way and not getting stuck in a rut of crap football.
Really the simple part is, coaching, as with teaching it's a numbers game. No surprise that in education classes that are say 5 or 10 to 1 teacher do better than classes that are 20 or 30 to 1 teacher. No different to coaching. Spain has more coaches. It was 3 years ago now but Spain had 24k coaches at Uefa b/a/pro level of training, England had under 2800. Now work out how many kids are being taught by top coaches in England vs Spain?
There is SO much wrong with the way England tries to teach it's kids football..... not surprisingly this leads to less great english players and English managers/coaches are largely behind this.
Every single premiership club could offer free training for coaches at grass roots teams and pay what is literally, or say ask 500 people to sign up for it every year. Pay for them to become coaches and assign them to youth teams to get more people involve with proper training at every level.
England just won't do it properly, and they won't accept they are doing it wrong, it's embarrassing. WE need English managers to both go and do their coaching badges abroad(very very few do, again attitude), try and get jobs under better managers, and attempt to get jobs at foreign teams.
A guy who is assistant manager under Pardew or Redknapp, or players who pick up management from the managers they had in their careers, aren't going to turn into the best managers themselves.
I can't see him resigning that's for sure, he'd never live it down if he did... if he gets sacked he'll get a nice retirement fund and be able to spend the rest of his life claiming that he wasn't given enough time and success was just around the corner.
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Caporegime
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The longer he fails at Utd the less other clubs will want him. The worse he does at Utd the more people will see the positive football at Everton and think Moyes held them back rather than pushed them forwards and that he might do the same at any team.
Basically every single game Moyes has at Utd his stock is going down, and we have no idea what the financial situation is. Mourinho has won everything and if a club says "errm we kinda want you for 4 years but you know if we fire you we want to pay you nothing" then Mourinho takes a different job. Moyes wasn't making a fraction of what he is now, he had no other offers, he had no place to bargain or negotiate, was being given the chance of a lifetime. I would be very surprised if Utd will be in a situation where they have to pay out his full 6 year contract if they fire him.
As such leaving by mutual consent could get him more money and prevent further tarnishing his reputation, both sides win.
Basically every single game Moyes has at Utd his stock is going down, and we have no idea what the financial situation is. Mourinho has won everything and if a club says "errm we kinda want you for 4 years but you know if we fire you we want to pay you nothing" then Mourinho takes a different job. Moyes wasn't making a fraction of what he is now, he had no other offers, he had no place to bargain or negotiate, was being given the chance of a lifetime. I would be very surprised if Utd will be in a situation where they have to pay out his full 6 year contract if they fire him.
As such leaving by mutual consent could get him more money and prevent further tarnishing his reputation, both sides win.
Caporegime
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i got to agree.
fickle fans i admit because many so called Man United where laughing at me after i wanted wenger gone after 4 yes 4 bad seasons with arsenal. Moyes has only been at the job for 8 months if that.
Next time i call for wengers head if ever, You man united fans cant say **** as i will just laugh at you and remind and quote a lot of united fans nonsense of Moyes out after half a season LOL.
give the man time for bloody sakes. so what if you miss CL? is that an embarrassing thing considering 4-5 teams above you are all having amazing seasons?
is it a ****ing shame to be below the likes of city, chelseas morinho, liverpools SS combo upfront and Arsenals resilience and will power? is it an embarrassment to miss top 4?
come on! get a grip you lot and stop acting like Glory hunters and back your team/Moyes instead of wishing your opponents trash you each game.
Some of you united fans are embarrassing. Yea me and some arsenal fans wanted wenger sacked but we NEVER wished our opponents smash us in any game.
****ing joke this is.
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Caporegime
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Says the person who is thinking that moyes should go lol.
Keep at it "robbo" its great seeing true glory hunter/fickle fans all crying and wanting Moyes out. I'd give you till mid March before you join the bandwagon and start calling for his head officially.
You probably dont have the balls to admit it when the time comes anyway as many will just laugh at you.
Good luck.
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Wow, what's got you so upset? You're the one doused in hilarious irony for all to see.
If you've read everything I've written about Moyes (I doubt you have), you might know my position isn't quite as clear cut as that.
I'm questioning his credentials, and everything he's done so far (among other things). That is not unreasonable. If it's all going horribly wrong we don't have to sit here and just put up with it, you know. I know it isn't entirely his fault, as I've already repeatedly said today.
You changed your tune on Wenger almost daily at one point, I don't think even you know what you're thinking half the time, perhaps it's not your fault. I'm pretty sure the majority of this forum treat as you as a joke. I'm one of the few people who will engage you in any sort of conversation, so don't burn your bridges.
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ive read your post and so i never ever said you specifically want moyes out "yet" but made a general sweep on united fans that want him out NOW and are begging for the next opponent to beat them heavily.
No not many treat me as a joke here. Just a selected few of kids in here that is all.
And it is great seeing those same people argue amongst themselves every footy thread in here lol.
Dont you yourself agree that it si absolutely stupid and childish to actually want your opponent to beat your team heavily?
Case point arsenal vs united a few weeks ago, many of the so called United fans where wishing Arsenal spanked your club.
How can you accept that from your own fans and if you dont accept that from your own fans in this very same forum, do correct me?
Caporegime
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Give him till end of the season at least! they may turn fortunes. You just never know and as stated in the other moyes out thread(why do we have two threads about the same damm topic?) Its ****ing hilarious seeking all these fickle fans wanting moyes out and wanting there opponents to smash them week in week out!
Who is begging for our next opponent to beat us heavily? Pretty sure you've done that before yourself.
You were addressing me, so, where did I say that? I once mentioned that maybe it would be better if we lost if it meant Moyes would go and we improved from there... which of course isn't a guarantee.
Perhaps people have said this in jest but very few (if any) have said it in a serious manner; either way, take it up with them. You could make a case for hoping we lose if it ultimately lead to better things, not that it would be ideal.
Well, we can agree to disagree on that.
You've clearly taken people calling you 'fickle' to heart in the past, and you've exploded in this thread having a pop at all the Man Utd fans who maybe/definitely think Moyes is the wrong man. That's pretty out of order, at least make some good points if you're going to continue ranting.
Why do you rate Moyes, and what makes you think he'll come good for us then?
Caporegime
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a few where during the Arsenal vs United game begging for us to spank united.
As to your last question:
- His done well at everton on shoe string budget and a much weaker side then United
- Fergie left Moyes with a one man aging team(search reason on the other moyes thread why your a one man team via RVP)
- Liverpool, chelsea, arsenal and city and improved dramatically this season
Those are some of the reasons why you should not sack and lay all the blame in him.
You should all wait for the end of the season.
You do realize that there are in theory 4 teams competing for the title and you yourself have stated how you did not expect your team to compete for the title but at least for 4th place. well as i said already, top 4 is occupied by teams fighting for the title!
Who?
Yes, but clearly he's struggling terribly. Even if we lost to Liverpool, Arsenal, City and Chelsea, we should still be beating the majority of the other teams, and we aren't. In fact we're being outplayed by most of them.
We will likely wait until the end of the season, but the situation isn't going to be any different to now. We'll likely finish where we are at the moment. 5th? 6th? It doesn't matter.
We're 11 points behind 4th place, currently 6th.
For me, it's not even about the league position, it's about the apparent mentality/attitude of the team/staff now and the performances/tactics. Surely you can see this. I'm getting bored of repeating myself!
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I will search for "who" if you can search examples of me wanting wenger out or not on a "daily" basis at one point.
Arsenal must have been 11points if not more off the nearest team fighting for the title last season at this same stage. And that is my point. nearest team fighting for the title is 4th. Quality has gone up!
And last season we finished 11 points ahead of anyone else, with this exact same squad (which has had £80m+ worth of players added to it)...
Yes, the league quality has gone up, but our quality and mentality has completely collapsed. Tactically we are a total mess as well, that is entirely down to Moyes.
Of course it's not totally Moyes fault, maybe the players don't like him, or don't respect him, but that's still a massive problem. We can only replace a handful in one go.
I maintain that Moyes is a good manager, but being a good manager doesn't mean you can manage the very top clubs; we've taken a massive gamble.
Soldato
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It looks like the players dont want to play for the manager any more. When a manager loses the dressing room it's a slippery sloap. Look at AVB, he was supposed to be given time to rebuild the team and move the ageing players on. He didn't even last one season at Chelsea.
Football is a results business, to go from Champions to 6th/7th in one season is a massive decline for 1 season. Can u also trust Moyes with £100 million to spend? He seems to have miss managed a lot of players and now some of them are speaking out against him when u read between the lines.
It was a massive gamble but the simple fact is he wouldn't be United manager if he wasn't born in Scotland and was best friends with Fergie. Fergie picked him on favouritism and it has backfired now.
It certainly does look as if that might be the case.
This is what the Glazers will be deciding now I imagine.
Likely true.
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