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E-Scooter discussion after fatal collision

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ianh, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    The problem as I see it, these scooters aren't licensed and have no plates so when some take no notice of road traffic regulations how will they be identified? It's all very well the rider having a license but without any plates they won't be subject to the rules being applied equally as in CCTV capturing them running red lights etc. I can see the hiring aspect as being something to assist that only models meeting the 15mph limit would be legal for use and hopefully this also includes front and rear lights being mandatory / factory fitted. I think it also raises the issue of enforcement, especially when used on pavements as some cyclists seem to see all pavements as cycle lanes and is already a poor mix with pedestrians.
     
  2. Bear

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2002

    Posts: 12,559

    Location: Bucks and Edinburgh

    Of course its relevant whether a kit is illegal or not, its the whole point of the post I was replying to. The post if you want to go back and read it again was that ebikes are assisted so shouldnt be classified as motorised transport like an e-scooter and therefore should not require a licence, if you dont pedal you dont go anywhere unlike the e-scooter. Cars require a licence to begin with so illegal modification is irrelevant to the point of requiring a licence.
     
  3. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 21,337

    Indeed, and modification will render your insurance void unless you tell them, and can make the car illegal.

    We're talking about how the law applies to stock scooters and e-bikes, not modified ones.
     
  4. Demon

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 22, 2002

    Posts: 6,830

    Location: Near Cheltenham

    It's not mandatory on a bike (yet) but If you advocate having a 20MPH limit unassisted, then more people are going to be doing this and at 20MPH there is a significant risk of serious injury.. even 15MPH smacking your head against something solid is going to be a very very bad day..

    I can only vouch anecdotally for the stability, but I have not come accross another owner or user that feels it's anything but stable enough.. and that's on UK roads.

    For the other points it's just like a bike really, visibility wise you are stood bolt upright, arguably it's probably a large cross sectional area presented to the car driver, so I'd say it's no worse than a bike.
    The brakes are also good enough (disc brakes) just like a bike, I have no issues stopping on mine at all from any speed, just like my bike.. the bonus is, on many eScooters you get a brake light and front light built in.. I wish bikes had this.
     
  5. SexyGreyFox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Mar 29, 2003

    Posts: 50,352

    I've woke up twice in A&E and that's with a helmet on, both times I would have been dead or very seriously brain damaged.
    My mate always reminds me this is just an anecdote and he's never needed one.
    I've never needed a seat belt in 62 years but I always put one on.
     
  6. Trifid

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Feb 18, 2006

    Posts: 8,306

    I think this misses the point that a ebike is meant to just be a easier to use bike, not a faster one. If you want to go faster then a average pedal bike then get a petrol scooter. I say this as someone who can comfortably average 20mph on my bike without the addition of a motor.
     
  7. Dis86

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 24,318

    Location: Northern England

    No. It allows you that extra speed when required to overtake slower cyclists instead of getting stuck behind them perpetually.
     
  8. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,859

    After a few accidents and people getting squashed by buses after jumping lights they will change the law. Just give it a few years.
     
  9. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 10,935

    Scooter Crash Test
    although users probably wouldn't behave like dummies, you don't have a crumple zone like on a bicycle - the front wheel.
    it's surprising how much the car is shaken ... maybe that's 1/2mv^2
     
  10. Malevolence

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 21, 2011

    Posts: 14,465

    Think I might look into building my own contraption.
     
  11. Ocean Breeze

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 1, 2009

    Posts: 717

    Location: Shropshire/Paris

    The usual let’s turn bikes and scooters into cars.. Bikes have been around for hundreds of years and you still don’t need any of that haha. Cars are finished in cities. They are gradually being blocked out. Bikes and e-scooters will have all the roads to themselves..
     
  12. Kaeo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 7, 2011

    Posts: 1,355

    Location: Edinburgh

    To themselves..to share with buses, trams, delivery trucks and taxis. What could possibly go wrong? Here's the truth. No one wants them on the pavement, they're too fast. No one wants them on the road, they're too slow.
     
  13. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    The other thing to consider is that people see what they expect to see.

    When you see somebody standing up, most people will "See" a pedestrian traveling at 2-4MPH not somebody on a scooter traveling at 15.

    I anticipate many accidents.
     
  14. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 10,935

    yes - I agree, thery'll look like pedestrians, albeit, waving at you :
    Paris's rules https://www.2roueselectriques.fr/loi-trottinettes-electriques/
     
  15. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 28,217

    Location: London

    Discussion "works" by challenging opinions, otherwise what is the point in discussing anything?

    Why make an arbitrary distinction of motor when you can ride a nearly 1 ton animal at 40mph down the street? It doesn't make sense to create an arbitrary distinction for a class of vehicle that travels at the same speed, has the same handling characteristics and the same momentum as an identical human powered vehicle.
     
  16. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 10,935

    OK - in the general case, utilization of a motor , thereby exceeding typical human power, does usually infer an ability for the means of transport to damage(momentum) both the driver and others to a greater degree (with costs to society), so, worthy of differential legislation,
    also if you have skin/adrenelaine, like the poor horse, in the game, you probably make more responsible decisions, too ?
     
  17. Trifid

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Feb 18, 2006

    Posts: 8,306

    *whistles*
     
  18. Ocean Breeze

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 1, 2009

    Posts: 717

    Location: Shropshire/Paris

    Motors mean nothing. You can go 30mph on a road bike, faster than an e-scooter and easily kill someone if you hit them.

    Weight and velocity is what matters not whether you have a motor or not.
     
  19. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 6,596

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    As someone who commutes by bicycle daily using a variety of bikes (road/gravel/emtb) I was a bit comfused by the new rules put in place for escooters.

    They should have just kept them similar to ebikes 15.5mph top speed, 250w motor max. With the only exception being mandatory helmets. Speed restrictions should be enforced across the board, I've seen e-scooters riding on the pavement, keeping up with traffic on a 30mph road. While it's entirely possible to keep up or even out pace an e-scooter on a high end road bike, that power is coming entirely from you, and not a button or throttle control.

    If I'm going for a short sprint I make sure I have plenty of space to do it. Something I wouldn't really think about when all I have to do is a push a button.
     
  20. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 28,217

    Location: London

    This "general case" does not apply to ebikes, they are bikes with a 250W motor and a max speed limit of 15.5mph so considerably less than the output power or momentum of a bike powered by a human.

    Horses behave unpredictably in the best of situations, many times I have seen horses take off after being spooked, but even at a sensible trotting pace that I would ride at the momentum is an order of magnitude higher than someone doing 15mph on an ebike.