E-Scooter discussion after fatal collision

b0rn2sk8 said:
I don't really have an issue with e-scooters in principle. The sensible ones are very similar to e-bikes, 250W and 15mph max speed on the flat. I would ride one to work (with a helmet) .....

Care just needs to be taken like no riding up the inside of buses, lorries, using cycle lanes, defensive riding, wearing a helmet etc. I also wouldnt be against mandating a helmet but it would likely reduce take up. I would be very cautious about letting a hire scheme run though (Lime, Bird etc.). The dock less bikes are bad enough from a street litter point of view and there isn't that many of them. The TFL bikes are not too bad but they do attract a lot of inexperienced riders which shows in the standards of riding. I spent some time in California last year and Paris this year. The standard of riding was FAR higher on privately owned scooters. For instance Paris I saw 2 adults and a child on a single lime scooter and two adults on one multiple times...
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Despite the low centre of gravity they look much less stable than a bike with its gyroscopic effect from the wheels,
braking you don't have the front forks taking the energy either, I would have thought you'd easily be in for a broken ankle.
... How do you prevent them being nicked too, seem difficult to tether, but you couldn't take one into Starbucks, or a supermarket.

UberTiger said:
what age you thinking?
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it's not a number ... just inability to stand on one foot say ... lacking balance ?
 
I wouldn't say escooters are any more dangerous than all the other ways of travelling around a busy city, and none of these transport deaths made headline news this month: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...in-just-5-days-on-londons-roads-a4183196.html

They're going to have to legalise them at some point, all electric transportation is the future! Plus the law that makes them illegal is from 1835, so I'm pretty sure it's overdue for a review. I'm not sure how they'd make helmets/licencing/insurance that people keep going on about mandatory without applying them to cycle bikes too. Even on a heavy Santander hire bike I can get up to pretty fast speeds, overtaking cars/buses in traffic etc, and you don't need any of those prerequisites to hire one out through central London. Surely the most sensible action is a cap on the maximum speed, proper braking and they're not allowed on pedestrian walkways. I also think making them legal will bring out more awareness of the correct and safe ways of riding them, and therefore increase rider responsibility.
 
Monday’s Metro’s front page was an entire page telling people that coppers are reminding people that these things are not road legal and pose a hazard.

They’re getting worse than cyclists, I see at least 15 every day and most of them are on pavements, in cycle lanes, changing direction with no indication, and best of all, headphones on which adds an element of not knowing what the **** is going on around you.

They’re flat out dangerous and sadly most of the people riding them seem to have that air about them of “I’m fine, I’m not doing anything wrong”.

These people are the reason we have to put stickers on cacti telling people not to eat them. Too stupid to realise that you’re at a huge risk of getting turned in to purée by almost anything else on the road.

Send them to the Congo.
 
Diddums said:
Monday’s Metro’s front page was an entire page telling people that coppers are reminding people that these things are not road legal and pose a hazard.

They’re getting worse than cyclists, I see at least 15 every day and most of them are on pavements, in cycle lanes, changing direction with no indication, and best of all, headphones on which adds an element of not knowing what the **** is going on around you.

They’re flat out dangerous and sadly most of the people riding them seem to have that air about them of “I’m fine, I’m not doing anything wrong”.

These people are the reason we have to put stickers on cacti telling people not to eat them. Too stupid to realise that you’re at a huge risk of getting turned in to purée by almost anything else on the road.

Send them to the Congo.
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They're no worse than the cyclists who treat the morning commute like the final stage of the Tour de Trance or the rising numbers of 'fixie' riders who ride brakeless. Idiots pose the danger, regardless of transport method
 
There was another scaremongering article in the Metro again today. They love to keep quoting escooters in the city with speeds of 30mph, yet every photo they had were of Xiaomi M365's (the most popular escooter) with a max speed of 15mph. Quite a difference. In fact even in sports-mode the majority of escooters would probably struggle to hit over 17mph after 30 seconds on a flat road.

I see plenty of cyclists behaving just as careless as anyone on an escooter or eskateboard. Sadly it only takes a few people to ruin the reputation of the many. Also it seems like the British public just like to moan about something and this is the latest on-trend. One person dead and a kid rides into a bus stop...suddenly there's a crime wave epidemic on British streets! Just legalize them for road use only like bicycles and set some clear guide lines and advice. The main problem with them currently being illegal is there's no set rules for people to follow.
 
To echo the above posters there are two very different issues being conflated as one.

1) The legality and safety of the scooters themselves.

2) The minority of people that ride them in a dangerous manor.

1) scooters that fall into the same power and speed as an electric bike are no more dangerous to pedestrians and riders than an electric bike when used sensibly. In fact it’s an easy argument that they are safer for pedestrians in the event of a collision. They are so much smaller and lighter than an electric bike. That means less energy in a collision. The brakes on good scooters (like the Xiaomi) are very good and will stop you quicker than an ebike with standard vbrakes. Again another argument I favour of safety for the rider. Visibility of riders is up for debate but they should be risen in a say that they can be seen. Just like cyclists.

The laws in place just haven’t kept pace and need updating.

2) this is no different to those that ride bikes in a dangerous way and the two are linked quite closely. Better education and enforcement is needed to address this across the board (drivers, cyclists and pedestrians).

For example it’s possible to ride a kick scooter/skate board in exactly the same manor at an electric equivalent. One is illegal to ride, the other isn’t. What hasn’t changed is that they are both being ridden dangerously by an individual. The latter is where the focus should be.
 
Motorised vehicle on the roads with no insurance and you're complaining that the police are upholding the law?
 
Yes I am, they neeed to adapt. They should be putting their effort into modifying the legislation because the shift is innevitable.

Instead they waste hours of police time to put on a show to stop people using EV's to commute because one person got killed.
 
Dis86 said:
Motorised vehicle on the roads with no insurance and you're complaining that the police are upholding the law?
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I don't see them stopping mobility scooters, you don't need insurance by law to ride them on the road.
 
UberTiger said:
They should be putting their effort into modifying the legislation because the shift is innevitable.
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That's not their problem, the Police's job is to enforce the law as it stands. It's up to the DfT to sort clarify the position on scooters but they are all tied up with Brexit. Lets be honest, do we even trust Chris Grayling to be able to deal with this appropriately? (Is he still in post?)

That said I do think the met have missed the big picture here, whats the priority? Knives, guns, gangs, drugs, theft? Nope, scooters....

By all means educate but to do people for no insurance is very heavy handed given the context. The DfT are consulting on making them legal, they are legal in wide parts of Europe and the states and heavy handed enforcement has huge implications it can have on other methods of transport. Imagine losing your driving license because you rode a electric scooter in a safe manor.

I said earlier in this thread that I will not get one until they are legal, but as soon as they are I'm all in. I'm currently looking at buying a Brompton, but if I can get one of these for less than half the price its a no brainier.

Genuine question: What are they actually going to do with the scooters now they have taken them? If they have been taken due to no insurance then the procedure is normally to release them back to the owners if they can get insurance (which isn't possible). The next step is normally to auction them off and they'll end up back on the streets.... keep an eye out at a met police auction near you soon!
 
Nitefly said:
It’s because they fall into a limb of vehicle classification for which, until laws are changed, they require insurance and number plates.

They are legal in a few major cities, notably Berlin and Paris.

Infact, Uber run a ‘hire a scooter’ in Berlin which is just insane. Use the same app, it shows you to location of them, go up to them and scan the code, it unlocked and your off. It’s mindblowingly good.
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I use similar in Zurich - the app is called Bird; you scan the QI code and you're away. It's a little bit expensive (as is most of Zurich), but it's good fun and beats walking around in the crazy heat!
 
Hilly said:
I use similar in Zurich - the app is called Bird; you scan the QI code and you're away. It's a little bit expensive (as is most of Zurich), but it's good fun and beats walking around in the crazy heat!
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You can hire Bird scooters around the Olympic Park in Stratford. Obviously you're only limited to traveling around the park itself cause it's private land :)
 
stockhausen said:
I hate to say it but "e-scooters are illegal to ride on public roads, including in cycle lanes or on the pavement."

By all accounts, the roundabout on which she was killed is a known high risk area where there has been at least one previous fatality involving a cyclist and a dustcart.

Nonetheless - R.I.P.
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They are. It's a stupid law that just shows how far behind and how slow the UK is at adapting to things compared to some of its EU and non-EU neighbours.
 
Dis86 said:
No, but you must be registered disabled and the vehicle must be registered.
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They are also built to an approved standard, with certain safety features, maximum speeds set in the hardware, and things like lights (IIRC all new ones sold as of about 10-15 years ago have to have front and rear lights, and reflectors).
They're also much bigger and easier to see as a driver than a scooter, and far less likely to suddenly change direction.

It's almost like they're treated as a proper vehicle by the manufacturers.

IIRC the maximum speed for a class 3 mobility scooter (pavement model) is 4mph which is considered average walking speed (I've seen people overtake them with kids in tow), and 8mph (with a 4mph temporary limior of some description) for road approved models.
 
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